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Post by Retro on Apr 8, 2016 10:30:47 GMT -8
There are some things in here that are just plain wrong and I have to wonder if it is on purpose or not. Point 3 is the first thing that is glaring. Kalor is his own individual, you aren't making any decisions for him. If he chose ally then he is well aware of what that means, there is no reason to choose ally hoping that the other person in your pair wil actually choose betray. In that hypothetical, all you are doing is covering up Kalor's choice.
Point 4 is also wrong. Time is not completely on our side. We are at the whim of RNG. All scum has to do is wait for one of them to be against another and they can easily boost their partner. We can sit here all day pretending that we will betray to keep the game going but scum does not have to play that game. Eventually, RNG will hand them their win because scum vs. scum will come up.
You say in point 4 that RNH made that point yesterday and you agree with it. It's odd that you then weren't sure about trusting him. I'm not dumb, agreement doesn't mean blind trust but RNH said a lot of things yesterday that I don't think scum would have said first. Asking the neutrals to claim right away, shaking people from the ally love hug we were in, it was all common sense stuff but it would be odd if scum had bothered doing it first. Of course Kalor is his own person. But I still have to play alongside him, and consider him in my decisions. Mafia's a team sport, Sorian. How many times have I said that? I know you think of it as an individual game, but it's really not. You raise a good point about RNG and the scum team, and I'll admit it's one I hadn't considered. Perhaps we can't stall indefinitely. However, if we do hold here, at five points, scum still has to RNG together twice to get the win. I'll agree that we can't do this indefinitely, but time is on our side. Finally, quit putting words in my mouth, Beanie. I said I was 50/50 on RNH. There exists a perfectly legitimate middle ground where I can be willing to listen to someone's ideas, but not want to potentially sacrifice my life for him. I also pointed out that the ally love hug wasn't going to help us learn anything at the beginning of the freaking game, remember? Hmmm... It's going to be a double edged sword, I think. On the one hand, allying is the best option for everyone on this first day. On the other hand, what will we learn from that? I feel like this is WIFOM, the home game, to be honest. /shrug. I know I'm not going to convince you. You've got a real-life override, I guess I'm a real life Miller. Everyone reads me as scum when I try to help out.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 10:39:39 GMT -8
There are some things in here that are just plain wrong and I have to wonder if it is on purpose or not. Point 3 is the first thing that is glaring. Kalor is his own individual, you aren't making any decisions for him. If he chose ally then he is well aware of what that means, there is no reason to choose ally hoping that the other person in your pair wil actually choose betray. In that hypothetical, all you are doing is covering up Kalor's choice.
Point 4 is also wrong. Time is not completely on our side. We are at the whim of RNG. All scum has to do is wait for one of them to be against another and they can easily boost their partner. We can sit here all day pretending that we will betray to keep the game going but scum does not have to play that game. Eventually, RNG will hand them their win because scum vs. scum will come up.
You say in point 4 that RNH made that point yesterday and you agree with it. It's odd that you then weren't sure about trusting him. I'm not dumb, agreement doesn't mean blind trust but RNH said a lot of things yesterday that I don't think scum would have said first. Asking the neutrals to claim right away, shaking people from the ally love hug we were in, it was all common sense stuff but it would be odd if scum had bothered doing it first. Of course Kalor is his own person. But I still have to play alongside him, and consider him in my decisions. Mafia's a team sport, Sorian. How many times have I said that? I know you think of it as an individual game, but it's really not.You raise a good point about RNG and the scum team, and I'll admit it's one I hadn't considered. Perhaps we can't stall indefinitely. However, if we do hold here, at five points, scum still has to RNG together twice to get the win. I'll agree that we can't do this indefinitely, but time is on our side. Finally, quit putting words in my mouth, Beanie. I said I was 50/50 on RNH. There exists a perfectly legitimate middle ground where I can be willing to listen to someone's ideas, but not want to potentially sacrifice my life for him. I also pointed out that the ally love hug wasn't going to help us learn anything at the beginning of the freaking game, remember? The bolded is a fun thing to poke at in a regular mafia game and how it is difficult to act like a team when you are town-sided but don't know your team (I don't think of it as an individual sport but whatever). This is completely different though. While betraying does overwrite you partner's vote, it doesn't actually do anything negative to them. If you ally, that doesn't force your teammate to ally which would open them to a negative result so no, you don't really need to consider him in your decisions. What he chooses is most important for himself, what you do doesn't really change what he did in a negative way.
Also, I didn't put words in your mouth. I said you weren't sure about trusting him, that is the same as being 50/50 which is what you said, or am I reading it wrong?
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Post by Retro on Apr 8, 2016 11:05:53 GMT -8
/sigh. lol @ this game.
I can't go around in circles about this with you today, Sora. I have to head out to a Doctor's appointment, and I'm not sure how long it will be. (Ultrasound, Baby's heartbeat, yay!) I think it's safe to assume that I know what you're going to do tonight. For what it's worth, I do think you're town, and I really am half-tempted to let you shoot me down to push you up. But, again, it's not just my decision.
I guess we'll see who does what tonight, won't we?
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Post by Retro on Apr 8, 2016 11:06:33 GMT -8
Above should have been: I can't go around in circles about this with you any more today, Sora.
I hate not being able to edit.
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Post by RobotNinjaHornets on Apr 8, 2016 11:11:02 GMT -8
Hey, sorry for the delay, I'm here now
Right, so me and Kalor against nin. If what Terra is says is true, then I should, in theory, be happy to ally with nin
That said, that would mean me and Kalor both lose points if nin betrays us. And it would be enough points to push us into potentially needing another round to get us into the escape list. Now if Kalor's mafia, that's fine, I'm willing to take the hit, we outnumber them. However if we're both town, that makes things a lot harder.
I need to figure out what I think of Kalor.
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Post by RobotNinjaHornets on Apr 8, 2016 11:12:14 GMT -8
Also it would be nice if nin would check in
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 11:37:41 GMT -8
/sigh. lol @ this game. I can't go around in circles about this with you today, Sora. I have to head out to a Doctor's appointment, and I'm not sure how long it will be. (Ultrasound, Baby's heartbeat, yay!) I think it's safe to assume that I know what you're going to do tonight. For what it's worth, I do think you're town, and I really am half-tempted to let you shoot me down to push you up. But, again, it's not just my decision. I guess we'll see who does what tonight, won't we? I don't think I'm actually arguing anything that weird this time tbh >_>
Have fun at the ultrasound!
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Post by nin1000 on Apr 8, 2016 11:52:46 GMT -8
I don't know if you *can* trust me. I voted betray because I didn't trust Terrabyte to not vote betray. Basically, I got paranoid. Damn mate, you saved us. I voted ally lol Gesendet von meinem LG-H815 mit Tapatalk
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Post by nin1000 on Apr 8, 2016 11:55:37 GMT -8
I don't know if you *can* trust me. I voted betray because I didn't trust Terrabyte to not vote betray. Basically, I got paranoid. Well this is probably a dumb move but... You were right, but at the same time I chose betray because I didn't have a choice. I can't let Nin get 9 points. Mother...... We there you have it guys. My reaction after several hours. Gesendet von meinem LG-H815 mit Tapatalk
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 12:25:13 GMT -8
I don't know if Burb is actually ending it when this current timer runs out but that's about 35min from now.
Nin, you verify Terra's claim then?
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Burbeting
Vice Admin
Bear of Love
The obligatory (gay) bear of the society!
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Post by Burbeting on Apr 8, 2016 12:27:31 GMT -8
33 minutes to go.
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Post by RobotNinjaHornets on Apr 8, 2016 12:34:59 GMT -8
Who haven't we heard from? I don't think Crimson has said anything since Terra's claim
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 12:35:11 GMT -8
Meh, Retro, as you point out, you are one half of a pair. As you argue, you are making a decision for both of you, I contend that isn't true but it doesn't matter anyway. From my side of the table, I have to look at both of you when I make my choice. Keep that in mind and do what you will.
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Burbeting
Vice Admin
Bear of Love
The obligatory (gay) bear of the society!
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Post by Burbeting on Apr 8, 2016 13:03:40 GMT -8
DECISION PHASE 3 BEGINS Ends either in 24 hours or after all choices are in.
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Burbeting
Vice Admin
Bear of Love
The obligatory (gay) bear of the society!
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Post by Burbeting on Apr 9, 2016 10:51:48 GMT -8
DECISION PHASE 3 RESULTS CrimsonFist & Retro – ALLY versus Sorian - BETRAY Scrafty & Terrabyte – BETRAY versus Launchpad - ALLY Kalor and RobotNinjaHornets –ALLY versus nin1000 - BETRAY POINTS: ScraftyDevil - 8 LaunchpadMcQ - 3 Sorian - 8 CrimsonFist - 3 Retro - 3 Kalor - 3 Terrabyte - 8 RobotNinjaHornets - 3 nin1000 - 8 --- TALK PHASE 4 BEGINS Matches for this cycle: Terrabyte & nin1000 versus Retro Sorian & RobotNinjaHornets versus Kalor Launchpad & ScraftyDevil versus CrimsonFist Talk Phase lasts for 12 hours.
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Post by crimsonfist on Apr 9, 2016 11:06:56 GMT -8
So Retro should ally and take Terra and Nin up to 9, so they both lose, but there's no way for them to get out of that, if Retro allies then they get to 9 regardless of which they pick. Then we need one more to 9 for the game to end, which could be Sorian or Scrafty this round. So if me or Kalor choose to ally. If we do decide to end the game this round though, we shouldn't get both of them to 9, safer to only get 3 out.
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Post by Terrabyte20xx on Apr 9, 2016 11:13:30 GMT -8
Well this sucks.
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Post by Terrabyte20xx on Apr 9, 2016 11:16:09 GMT -8
Nin, I think it would be in our best interests for us to vote Ally.
Retro, betray us please.
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Post by crimsonfist on Apr 9, 2016 11:33:38 GMT -8
oh right, guess that would be assuming that retro is town, if he's scum he'd obviously betray if the third person we chose to get out was town.
Still, at least that would give us a lot more information to go on.
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Post by nin1000 on Apr 9, 2016 11:46:15 GMT -8
Nin, I think it would be in our best interests for us to vote Ally. Retro, betray us please. Yep, i will ally with you
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Post by nin1000 on Apr 9, 2016 11:48:51 GMT -8
Well, i think we are fucked lol
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Post by nin1000 on Apr 9, 2016 11:49:43 GMT -8
i know retro has the option to ally with us and fuck both of us at the same time haha
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Post by Kalor on Apr 9, 2016 11:53:18 GMT -8
The match ups for today are interesting. I would be up for voting ally but I don't know how I feel about both Sorian and Scrafty becoming escapees. I'd rather one person than two.
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Post by Retro on Apr 9, 2016 12:14:05 GMT -8
I have to decide the fate of the neutrals?
Burb, you bastard.
OK, I'm thinking it over.
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Post by Cherry Bomb on Apr 9, 2016 12:23:17 GMT -8
Best clear the air now: I voted Betray vs. Launch because I thought he might try and take points away from Terra. My paranoia was entirely unwarranted, and for that I am sorry.
Launch, I'll vote in accordance with what you'd like to vote this round. My points don't really matter to me.
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Post by RobotNinjaHornets on Apr 9, 2016 12:31:41 GMT -8
So I'm pretty sure I'm the reason that last night round took so long, as I sent my command in after a lot of deliberation. I couldn't decide whether Kalor was mafia or not, and therefore whether town would benefit from him losing points.
Unfortunately, given he also allied and would have no reason to if he were mafia, I am now more convinced that yes, he is town. Funnily enough though, if I'd betrayed because I thought he was town so that 2 town players wouldn't be back down to 3, I wouldn't have then actually been able to tell if he was town or not.
So that's 4 people (including me) who's alignments I'm at least fairly certain on.
Scrafty coming out and saying that she voted betray against launch is...odd, as I'm fairly sure most people would've assumed Terra voted betray so nin wouldn't be getting ahead without him. I'll need to think over what this means.
Also:
CrimsonFist & Retro – ALLY versus Sorian - BETRAY
Interesting...
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Post by Kalor on Apr 9, 2016 12:36:48 GMT -8
I didn't notice that Sorian voted betray until now. I'm curious what his excuse is.
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Post by nin1000 on Apr 9, 2016 12:41:48 GMT -8
I have to decide the fate of the neutrals? Burb, you bastard. OK, I'm thinking it over Do as you wish , i for one will betray. I dont want to risk Terra winning this in the end so i would much rather lose now than lose later. BETRAY
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Post by Cherry Bomb on Apr 9, 2016 12:44:24 GMT -8
Scrafty coming out and saying that she voted betray against launch is...odd, as I'm fairly sure most people would've assumed Terra voted betray so nin wouldn't be getting ahead without him. I'll need to think over what this means. I could've hidden behind Terra, but I want to be perfectly transparent in my actions. I didn't trust Launch to do the right thing after the strange things he said yesterday, and if we have two neutrals close to Escapee status that's a far more desirable outcome than one. Turns out my intuition was incorrect and he did in fact vote Ally, so now I'm leaving my fate in the next round up to him. If he wants to coordinate with Crimson to both vote Betray so I don't attain escapee status, that's totally understandable. They do have to consider whether it's more desirable for me or Sorian to escape though, as it's quite likely that one of the two of us is going to be hitting the 9-point threshold tomorrow.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 9, 2016 12:59:12 GMT -8
I didn't notice that Sorian voted betray until now. I'm curious what his excuse is. I thought that Retro was scum. I made myself quite clear on that point yesterday. He may still be, he sacrificed his points for brownie points and only one scum has to get through to win so their might be a long play there or I read him wrong. I'm voting ally today. Kalor has been a slight town read for me since day 1 when I said he was more going with the flow which I would expect from a townie who knows nothing beforehand in this set up. Retro, if you are town, there is no doubt that you have to ally that vote on the two neutrals. Past that, it's up to some players to decide who is the third, Scrafty or I. We can't send 4.
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