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Post by Cherry Bomb on Apr 8, 2016 6:56:48 GMT -8
So if I'm understanding correctly, that would make nin and Terra our neutrals. If this is some kind of villainous gambit, the real neutrals should speak up and absolve us of any ambiguity.
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 6:57:04 GMT -8
I don't know if you *can* trust me. I voted betray because I didn't trust Terrabyte to not vote betray. Basically, I got paranoid. Well this is probably a dumb move but... You were right, but at the same time I chose betray because I didn't have a choice. I can't let Nin get 9 points. I see.  |
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 6:59:00 GMT -8
Ok, we can send in our decisions during the talk phase, right?
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 7:02:47 GMT -8
At this point, I only really trust Sorian and Retro, and maybe RNH. They seem rather honest and they aren't trying to hide their intentions either. I was prepared to trust Launch too, but apparently he doesn't think that's a good idea. No, I don't. I don't think we should be trusting anyone. Judging from your prior post I thought you understood the situation. I see I am mistaken. No, I do. But my manner of thinking right now is if it's not me, how can I count on anyone else to get to 9 points and not be scum? That's where it all falls apart. I know I'm town, but I don't know Terra or Scrafty. I'll respond to both what you said to Scrafty and what you said to me. How do you intend to win then? At least 3 people have to get to 9 points. Do you intend to just leave it to chance and hope that the other two people that come through with you are good or would you rather give up your spot to potentially push others that you've chosen through the door?
How do you feel about what Terra just said?
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 7:03:48 GMT -8
Ok, we can send in our decisions during the talk phase, right? You won't be able to change it if new information arises, I did yesterday when there was only 5-10 minutes left in the talk phase. It would be boneheaded to do it now though, I don't think everyone has even said anything yet. |
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Post by Terrabyte20xx on Apr 8, 2016 7:04:06 GMT -8
So if I'm understanding correctly, that would make nin and Terra our neutrals. If this is some kind of villainous gambit, the real neutrals should speak up and absolve us of any ambiguity. You understand correctly. Also, was it you launch that quoted my prediction and asked if I was one of them? If so, yeah, that was my friendly warning to you. |
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 7:15:44 GMT -8
If Terra is telling the truth then:
Nin and Terra are neutrals. I don't care about their win condition, town should be doing anything in their power to push them into the final group as long as it doesn't let other outside elements in.
I think Launch and Retro are scum. The final scum is harder to nail down, it's either Kalor who has been playing the quiet game, Crimson who comes off as his usual towny self, or Scrafty who has been inconsistent in balancing her abrasive nature while still trying to appease her partners.
RNH is town. I have no doubts. I know my alignment but I'm sure none of you care about me saying that I'm town so I won't.
Again, the above is under the assumption that Terra is telling the truth.
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 7:17:00 GMT -8
No, I don't. I don't think we should be trusting anyone. No, I do. But my manner of thinking right now is if it's not me, how can I count on anyone else to get to 9 points and not be scum? That's where it all falls apart. I know I'm town, but I don't know Terra or Scrafty. I'll respond to both what you said to Scrafty and what you said to me. How do you intend to win then? At least 3 people have to get to 9 points. Do you intend to just leave it to chance and hope that the other two people that come through with you are good or would you rather give up your spot to potentially push others that you've chosen through the door?
How do you feel about what Terra just said?
The problem with the bolded is that I won't know which is which until the end, will I? I just know I'm town; that's more than I know about anyone other than Terra. As for what Terra just said... if Nin can confirm him, then I will Ally. Neutral is as good as town. Ok, we can send in our decisions during the talk phase, right? You won't be able to change it if new information arises, I did yesterday when there was only 5-10 minutes left in the talk phase. It would be boneheaded to do it now though, I don't think everyone has even said anything yet. Right. Ok. So if I'm understanding correctly, that would make nin and Terra our neutrals. If this is some kind of villainous gambit, the real neutrals should speak up and absolve us of any ambiguity. You understand correctly. Also, was it you launch that quoted my prediction and asked if I was one of them? If so, yeah, that was my friendly warning to you. I appreciate it. I'm open to pushing you through, as although you are not town, if you are confirmed neutral, I'll be ok with that. As for right now, I am thinking that I will vote Ally just to buy some confidence. I anticipated the Betray last time; this time, I'll leave it up to you and Scrafty. You get more points, but yeah I'll ultimately get screwed over. You, Terra, don't really care if scum or town are in the final numbers, but I'm putting a lot of confidence in Scrafty. Being suspicious of everyone does not necessarily mean she's town. I'm hoping, even if I get betrayed, that I'll have some goodwill built up that people will trust me more. |
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 7:17:45 GMT -8
That also means that this group:
"Kalor and RobotNinjaHornets
versus
nin1000"
Kalor and RNH should have no issue at all choosing ally while nin betrays them.
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 7:24:21 GMT -8
That also means that this group: "Kalor and RobotNinjaHornets versus nin1000" Kalor and RNH should have no issue at all choosing ally while nin betrays them. That's... actually a good point. I'll definitely Ally then. Doesn't matter what Terra does as long as he gets the points. |
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 7:33:06 GMT -8
That also means that this group: "Kalor and RobotNinjaHornets versus nin1000" Kalor and RNH should have no issue at all choosing ally while nin betrays them. That's... actually a good point. I'll definitely Ally then. Doesn't matter what Terra does as long as he gets the points. It's not quite the same situation for you. They are only pitted against the neutral and nin would get the points alone. You are pitted against both a neutral and Scrafty. Giving Terra points also gives Scrafty points, is that something you want?
This is again also assuming that Terra is telling the truth. Nin might confirm or deny it, I could see a neutral going either way since they aren't working with each other though Nin is in a better position to agree since town would be more willing to feed him points than Terra in this current round. I would also expect that if Terra is lying then one of the real neutrals would come forward, by my estimate I see at least 3 people, who if they were actually one of the neutrals, are in a position to come forward instead of letting scum do this gambit.
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Post by Retro on Apr 8, 2016 7:41:35 GMT -8
I betrayed. RNH straight up said that he was going to Betray, so I would have been a fool not to do likewise. Would you have been? What is your read on RNH? There's the golden answer and thus, my issue with Retro at the moment. Is it dumb to choose ally when your opponent is going to choose betray? Depends on the circumstances but Retro gave it a hard yes. There's only one alignment in this game where it would be unacceptable to allow yourself to lose points. I think you are reading more into the situation than what's actually there, Beanie. I didn't make a blanket statement that "It's always dumb to choose Ally when your opponent is going to choose Betray." I said in this particular situation, knowing what I knew, that picking Ally would have been foolish. Here's why: 1. If RNH was telling the truth, picking ally would have involved me taking a hit. Not that I can't afford to, but why take a hit when it can be so easily side-stepped? 2. The best reason to pick ally when you know the other player is going to betray is to boost the other player. If I were boosting someone that I'm fairly certain is town, then yeah, I'm willing to do that. I'm not certain about RNH. I'm about 50/50. 3. I wasn't just making this decision for myself - I was making it for Kalor, too. I was fairly certain that Kalor was going to betray, (in which case it also didn't matter what I picked,) but if he was going to ally, and I chose to ally, then I wouldn't just be taking the hit for myself, I'd be knocking two people down. If Kalor is town, (I'm not sure either way, tbh,) then I've just pushed two townies further away from the finish line to boost someone I'm not sure about. It's not good math. 4. In the absence of more information, time is on Town's side, not scum's. Rushing blindly to the finish isn't going to help anyone. RNH made this point yesterday, and I agree with it. |
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 7:41:57 GMT -8
That's... actually a good point. I'll definitely Ally then. Doesn't matter what Terra does as long as he gets the points. It's not quite the same situation for you. They are only pitted against the neutral and nin would get the points alone. You are pitted against both a neutral and Scrafty. Giving Terra points also gives Scrafty points, is that something you want?
This is again also assuming that Terra is telling the truth. Nin might confirm or deny it, I could see a neutral going either way since they aren't working with each other though Nin is in a better position to agree since town would be more willing to feed him points than Terra in this current round. I would also expect that if Terra is lying then one of the real neutrals would come forward, by my estimate I see at least 3 people, who if they were actually one of the neutrals, are in a position to come forward instead of letting scum do this gambit.
Like I said, if choosing Ally despite Scrafty buying in the fold buys me some goodwill down the line, I'm inclined to do it. But now you're introducing other possibilities, Sorian. Would the real neutrals benefit from not stepping forward? Can we be certain there isn't a clause that says they can't do that? |
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 7:43:26 GMT -8
And by goodwill, I don't necessarily mean get my points back.
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Post by Kalor on Apr 8, 2016 7:46:28 GMT -8
Who from Retro and Kalor chose betray? Or did you both? I betrayed. RNH straight up said that he was going to Betray, so I would have been a fool not to do likewise. I also betrayed with the same reasoning. I wasn't to vote ally when RNH already stated he would betray. |
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Post by Retro on Apr 8, 2016 7:46:37 GMT -8
Whoa, a whole bunch of new information came in that I didn't see. So, we're thinking Nin and Terra are the neutrals?
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Post by Kalor on Apr 8, 2016 7:53:49 GMT -8
The idea of me and RNH allying so that Nin can get the betray points is interesting. Based on the fact that no-one else has spoken up I see no reason to doubt that they are the real neutrals. I'll mull the idea over but we'll see what RNH thinks.
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 7:54:53 GMT -8
The idea of me and RNH allying so that Nin can get the betray points is interesting. Based on the fact that no-one else has spoken up I see no reason to doubt that they are the real neutrals. I'll mull the idea over but we'll see what RNH thinks. Give a little time before jumping on it, as well. Not everyone has checked in. |
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 7:59:17 GMT -8
Would you have been? What is your read on RNH? There's the golden answer and thus, my issue with Retro at the moment. Is it dumb to choose ally when your opponent is going to choose betray? Depends on the circumstances but Retro gave it a hard yes. There's only one alignment in this game where it would be unacceptable to allow yourself to lose points. I think you are reading more into the situation than what's actually there, Beanie. I didn't make a blanket statement that "It's always dumb to choose Ally when your opponent is going to choose Betray." I said in this particular situation, knowing what I knew, that picking Ally would have been foolish. Here's why: 1. If RNH was telling the truth, picking ally would have involved me taking a hit. Not that I can't afford to, but why take a hit when it can be so easily side-stepped? 2. The best reason to pick ally when you know the other player is going to betray is to boost the other player. If I were boosting someone that I'm fairly certain is town, then yeah, I'm willing to do that. I'm not certain about RNH. I'm about 50/50. 3. I wasn't just making this decision for myself - I was making it for Kalor, too. I was fairly certain that Kalor was going to betray, (in which case it also didn't matter what I picked,) but if he was going to ally, and I chose to ally, then I wouldn't just be taking the hit for myself, I'd be knocking two people down. If Kalor is town, (I'm not sure either way, tbh,) then I've just pushed two townies further away from the finish line to boost someone I'm not sure about. It's not good math. 4. In the absence of more information, time is on Town's side, not scum's. Rushing blindly to the finish isn't going to help anyone. RNH made this point yesterday, and I agree with it. There are some things in here that are just plain wrong and I have to wonder if it is on purpose or not. Point 3 is the first thing that is glaring. Kalor is his own individual, you aren't making any decisions for him. If he chose ally then he is well aware of what that means, there is no reason to choose ally hoping that the other person in your pair wil actually choose betray. In that hypothetical, all you are doing is covering up Kalor's choice.
Point 4 is also wrong. Time is not completely on our side. We are at the whim of RNG. All scum has to do is wait for one of them to be against another and they can easily boost their partner. We can sit here all day pretending that we will betray to keep the game going but scum does not have to play that game. Eventually, RNG will hand them their win because scum vs. scum will come up.
You say in point 4 that RNH made that point yesterday and you agree with it. It's odd that you then weren't sure about trusting him. I'm not dumb, agreement doesn't mean blind trust but RNH said a lot of things yesterday that I don't think scum would have said first. Asking the neutrals to claim right away, shaking people from the ally love hug we were in, it was all common sense stuff but it would be odd if scum had bothered doing it first.
Like I said, if choosing Ally despite Scrafty buying in the fold buys me some goodwill down the line, I'm inclined to do it. But now you're introducing other possibilities, Sorian. Would the real neutrals benefit from not stepping forward? Can we be certain there isn't a clause that says they can't do that?
Seeking goodwill is another point against you imo but moving on to the actual question in here. Of course we have no way of knowing if neutrals can claim or not. This is touted as an open set up though so I'd think they can, it's their prerogative to win or lose on their own, putting a post restriction on that would be ridiculous. Some people would benefit from stepping forward if they were the real neutral and some wouldn't. I'm not saying who I think would and would not benefit because I have no desire to help scum counter claim if they decide it's worth it. |
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 8:01:13 GMT -8
The idea of me and RNH allying so that Nin can get the betray points is interesting. Based on the fact that no-one else has spoken up I see no reason to doubt that they are the real neutrals. I'll mull the idea over but we'll see what RNH thinks. He could always ally back with you two as well, who knows. A 7 or an 8 is effectively the same. There is no way to get one point so he would be one judgment away from 9 anyway. I'm not sure how I, personally, feel about him letting you both get to 7 but the possibility is viable. |
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 8:22:40 GMT -8
Seeking goodwill is another point against you imo but moving on to the actual question in here. [/p][/quote] I'm just being transparent, Sorian. What would you like me to do, since you seem to have a perfect version of how town should behave in this game. Is it like you, pointing fingers but not committing to anything? |
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Post by Cherry Bomb on Apr 8, 2016 8:25:41 GMT -8
Terra, what course of action would you like to take? If Launch really is town then he shouldn't mind losing points while he's ahead anyway, but I'm fine with Allying too if you want to give him the boost.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 8:26:50 GMT -8
Seeking goodwill is another point against you imo but moving on to the actual question in here. I'm just being transparent, Sorian. What would you like me to do, since you seem to have a perfect version of how town should behave in this game. Is it like you, pointing fingers but not committing to anything? What an odd accusation. What am I not committing to? I've given a post detailing my exact reads and questioned you and Retro specifically for behavior that I think scum would be more involved in than town. Sorry that you don't like it. Being transparent about being scummy does not make the behavior any less scummy. |
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 8:31:43 GMT -8
I don't think I'm expressing myself very well. Bottom line is I'm going to vote Ally to push Terra forward if no one comes forward. I'm going to assume if there is a contradictory claim, it'll come up. I'm just being transparent, Sorian. What would you like me to do, since you seem to have a perfect version of how town should behave in this game. Is it like you, pointing fingers but not committing to anything? What an odd accusation. What am I not committing to? I've given a post detailing my exact reads and questioned you and Retro specifically for behavior that I think scum would be more involved in than town. Sorry that you don't like it. Being transparent about being scummy does not make the behavior any less scummy. I'm asking how you intend to act. |
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Post by RobotNinjaHornets on Apr 8, 2016 8:39:37 GMT -8
Had a very busy day at work today and haven't been able to catch up, just checking in now. Will be around for the last 4 hours
Also 420 blaze it (timer's at 4:20 >_>)
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 8:49:04 GMT -8
I'm asking how you intend to act. Connect the dots with my reads list and who I'm against. At this stage, sometimes implicitly saying what you will do does more harm then good as we've seen from plenty of people hiding behind the defense of "well, I had to choose betray because that guy said he was going to choose betray." I'm a single entity this round, it's not like my choice will be hidden when tomorrow comes. |
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 9:13:18 GMT -8
I'm asking how you intend to act. Connect the dots with my reads list and who I'm against. At this stage, sometimes implicitly saying what you will do does more harm then good as we've seen from plenty of people hiding behind the defense of "well, I had to choose betray because that guy said he was going to choose betray." I'm a single entity this round, it's not like my choice will be hidden when tomorrow comes. Right. You're scum, aren't you? |
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Post by Terrabyte20xx on Apr 8, 2016 9:14:31 GMT -8
Terra, what course of action would you like to take? If Launch really is town then he shouldn't mind losing points while he's ahead anyway, but I'm fine with Allying too if you want to give him the boost. To be honest, I'm kinda conflicted between my conscience and my win condition. Betraying him seems like a better course of action because I would be that much closer to my win condition, but I don't nessisarily want to run over launch just because of it. Also, I'm not really scum reading anyone, so I have no real guage on how that will work for town or scum if I betray, as you will get those points as well. |
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Post by Sorian on Apr 8, 2016 9:23:24 GMT -8
Connect the dots with my reads list and who I'm against. At this stage, sometimes implicitly saying what you will do does more harm then good as we've seen from plenty of people hiding behind the defense of "well, I had to choose betray because that guy said he was going to choose betray." I'm a single entity this round, it's not like my choice will be hidden when tomorrow comes. Right. You're scum, aren't you? Yup. |
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 8, 2016 9:34:35 GMT -8
I FUCKING KNEW IT
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