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Post by dusksoldier on Feb 3, 2017 11:33:17 GMT -8
none unfortunately. Personally, I think the flavour/lore didn't translate that well into gameplay. It makes sense that a level 1 infected without the level 2 is pretty much useless (can't kill/infect) but being able to kill all infected by cutting the head off the snake is too unbalanced. Don't put too much faith in one role. HP had that with Voldemort and when he got copped N1 and lynched the next day, it basically cost scum the game. Ask yourself: what if any role died D1? The scum team spreads too quickly for town to reliably kill them with just lynches. I agree that winning the game by cutting off the head of the snake was too imbalanced. That's why I gave the snake two heads. lol. It also wasn't possible for any scum to die on D1. The main problem with the balance was that the Vaccines will auto defend their holder from being attacked by scum. So fat4all and acohrs were very reluctant to use theirs. If their only purpose was to reverse infection. I think fat4all would have used his instead, and told everyone that he only had the one or maybe that he had only one more to bluff scum. They were literally told that there was a spy in the building trying to steal their vaccines, so they shouldn't have been admitting to hording them. But really I just made their roles way too complex. |
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Post by crimsonfist on Feb 3, 2017 11:56:35 GMT -8
Yeah, tcomplexity in general is a bit of an issue. I like the contagion concept, and the multiple stages idea, but there's so many other mechanics going on on top all of that.
And ofc stages 1's should not have been informed as to who infected them with the cure in play.
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Post by Lone_Prodigy on Feb 3, 2017 14:47:41 GMT -8
Hmm no deaths. The Board didn't try to kill anyone either.
Seems like once 11037 dies the game is over.
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Post by dusksoldier on Feb 3, 2017 15:05:52 GMT -8
yeah I'm surprised 11037 didn't infect sawneeks. he would have had the votes to survive this day if he had.
I guess he was worried that there was a protective role that would block him.
either that or he forgot she had 3 votes.
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Post by natiko on Feb 3, 2017 16:16:04 GMT -8
I hope some of the ideas in this game get built upon for a future one and not just waylaid due to how this turned out. I still think it's a really cool concept for a game of mafia. At least I get a win out of it  |
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Post by dusksoldier on Feb 3, 2017 16:27:37 GMT -8
I would love to try again with a few tweaks here or there. But it's hard to get people motivated to play bastard-level games. I feel like they have a tendency to turn out like this.
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Post by dusksoldier on Feb 3, 2017 16:30:27 GMT -8
ps Natiko, I was really hoping you'd get lynched so you could have a miraculous walks out of the flames unscathed moment. But alas it wasn't meant to be.
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Post by natiko on Feb 3, 2017 16:31:46 GMT -8
I was hoping so too tbh. In a perfect world I could've been elected Director and then self voted to lynch myself a couple days later and laughed in secret.
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Post by melonrabbit on Feb 3, 2017 17:19:49 GMT -8
I would definitely attempt to play an updated version, Dusk. I just don't know if my skill level is there.
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Post by crimsonfist on Feb 3, 2017 17:22:34 GMT -8
Eh, bastard games aren't that unpopular, Volcano Island was fondly remembered despite the complaints, and there's a lot of demand for a WWE 2, and WWE was way more broken than this. I do get the impression that a lot of players like the insanity.
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Post by Lone_Prodigy on Feb 3, 2017 17:47:48 GMT -8
We're all sadists, really.
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Post by natiko on Feb 3, 2017 18:40:00 GMT -8
I personally think bastard games seem cool. Then again it's all new to me so maybe my opinion will eventually change. You could count on me to signup for a follow up though Dusk.
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Post by Kawl on Feb 3, 2017 20:15:08 GMT -8
I generally play bastard games despite that and definitely not because of the bastardness. HP scarred me forever.
Given the choice I'll always go non bastard which is why I wish there were more semi standard mid season games.
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Post by yn on Feb 4, 2017 1:32:57 GMT -8
i think whats been said is more or less right for gafia
there is definitely APPETITE for bastard games. so, you should totally feel encouraged to take what you can improve on from this experience dusk :) i really think your design is unusual and creative :D
im with kawl, though. i tend to prefer non-gimmicky standard scum hunting set up. but that's just personal preference ... and seeing that i rarely EVER play a game, my preference isn't that much of a big deal in terms of community wide tastebuds :)
You definitely bring something different to the table, Duskie <3 And, as you can tell already from Crimson and LP and melon's replies, it's definitely appreciated :D
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Post by dusksoldier on Feb 4, 2017 7:46:21 GMT -8
thanks for all the feedback guys  |
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Post by faddy on Feb 4, 2017 12:06:37 GMT -8
I would love to try again with a few tweaks here or there. But it's hard to get people motivated to play bastard-level games. I feel like they have a tendency to turn out like this. I have been critical of the game but would love to send you a few ideas on how to fix this type of game but I'm waiting to fully read all the roles before I put it together. Please screw over the Board by killing the infected players first and letting Kalor live. |
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Post by Kawl on Feb 4, 2017 12:21:43 GMT -8
The game is over right?
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Post by faddy on Feb 4, 2017 12:27:19 GMT -8
When the day ends. 11 got Injected so if the same thing happens as last night he will die along with all those he infected. |
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Post by Sawneeks on Feb 4, 2017 14:42:42 GMT -8
Game's got me like  same |
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Post by Ourobolus on Feb 4, 2017 17:15:00 GMT -8
If the level 2's can get cured, then technically is it possible for everyone (except Melon) to win? Actually guess it wouldn't be since scum being cured means that the second neutral team loses, and they're the ones with the cures. But town and scum could theoretically all win together? Level 2s will die if they're vaccinated. Cabot's death is supposed to be a very vague hint to that. Sorry to be blunt, but this game was a turd. This right here is information that should have been available to anyone on the scum team, for instance, not left up to "flavor," because flavor is flavor. |
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Post by Ourobolus on Feb 4, 2017 17:19:44 GMT -8
To better clarify so I'm not too much of a dick:
By hinting at a cure in the OP, and not letting scum (including L1s) know the whole "L2 death kills all L1s they infected," and then also having the L1s know who infected them - that combination was a problem. I get what Burb did because it made sense given how that information was presented, so I'm not terribly mad at him for it.
Bastard games are fine, but there still needs to be someone there who looks at it and says "well what about this?" So many mechanics that were on top of each other and not explained well is an issue I would have brought up, for instance.
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Post by Retro on Feb 4, 2017 20:52:48 GMT -8
Currently, midseason games do not require vetting. Midseason gamerunners are encouraged to ask for review, but they are not required to do so. I don't know if Dusk had the game reviewed by anyone. (I was not asked for balance advice, I simply assumed someone else had reviewed the game. I should have been more proactive, and that is on me.) Based on this experience, we may want to set the rule that games are required to have at least a simple review to give advice to the gamerunner.
(Ouro, I know that you know this, but I'm saying it for other people who are reading the thread.)
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Post by faddy on Feb 6, 2017 16:17:47 GMT -8
Ok I think what would have made this game more balanced is 2 things
Explicitly make the two neutral factions have opposing win conditions. Both can't escape. Once one side escapes the other loses chat and the players get a secondary objective for Town win or Scum win. Like for example if me, LP, and CCS failed it might make sense for CCS to be pro-scum and me and LP to be pro-town.
The board should have only had one passcard on the head of security so the Fugutive faction is more reliant on the probe than having a large chance of winning early through random guesses. The board shouldn't have had as many vaccines as they were expendable. Make the head doctor have a 3 shot vaccine which goes to their assistant if they get killed.
To balance the Scum side I think starting with 2 level 2s is fine. At night if scum has a level 2 they get an infect command and if they have a level 1 they get a kill command. Explicitly tell infected players that last a day phase without being killed or cured they will get scum chat access that night. Don't tell them who infected them. Once the 2 level 2s are dead it becomes more like a standard game of Mafia.
A few town players should be carrying one shot vaccines that stop them being infected, and more investigation powers like a bloodtest to check for infection. Returns a simple Yes/No without giving any additional information.
Worst case for town is losing after 4th Night if everything goes wrong.
Scum can lose quicker but would need to be really unlucky/bad
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