|
Post by melonrabbit on Jul 30, 2016 14:57:59 GMT -8
For my sanity is ynny the sk?
|
|
|
Post by batsnacks on Jul 30, 2016 14:59:36 GMT -8
For my sanity is ynny the sk? ynnny is the 1-shot town vigilante, who will shoot Sorian this night phase with her twice refunded bullet sorry about your sanity
|
|
|
Post by melonrabbit on Jul 30, 2016 15:01:20 GMT -8
How did she know I was scum???
I have so many questions lol
|
|
|
Post by Hyperactivity on Jul 30, 2016 16:40:58 GMT -8
How did she know I was scum??? I have so many questions lol she bluffed I think the interactions we had is what screwed you over. Had your vote been a few minutes earlier, you probably would've been fine in general though, you played fine for the position you were in. I probably should've advised more day 1
|
|
|
Post by Sophia on Jul 30, 2016 16:43:12 GMT -8
How did she know I was scum??? I have so many questions lol You (or Sorian, rather) roleblocked her twice. She bluffed and called cop to try and out you. You did good tho. Unfortunate luck (and pure genius on Ynnny's part) put that game heavily against the scum team.
|
|
|
Post by Hyperactivity on Jul 30, 2016 17:35:03 GMT -8
I think I'm back to not letting scum die day 1 mood.
Final Fantasy taught me a good lesson. Gambit Hyper is more fun to play anyways
|
|
|
Post by melonrabbit on Jul 30, 2016 23:28:38 GMT -8
Hmmm. Well, it was a lot fun. I've learned a lot more about the game and hope I keep improving
|
|
|
Post by Swamped on Jul 31, 2016 7:09:41 GMT -8
Nice one melon! Very well played!!
And omg ynnny!!!! Such a genius lol! Go ynnny!
|
|
|
Post by melonrabbit on Jul 31, 2016 8:48:48 GMT -8
Looking back I think I should've push for a false claim or counterclaim Ynny. I got too flustered by what was happening lol.
|
|
|
Post by Sophia on Jul 31, 2016 11:25:29 GMT -8
Looking back I think I should've push for a false claim or counterclaim Ynny. I got too flustered by what was happening lol. I would have figured out if claiming town roleblocker was viable, and gone with that. Nobody could disprove it, and you'd just have to merely explain why you roleblocked Ynnny twice. From there, you could discredit Ynnny's cop claim.
|
|
|
Post by batsnacks on Jul 31, 2016 12:26:01 GMT -8
~30 minutes
stand by for epic finale
|
|
|
Post by yn on Jul 31, 2016 21:28:48 GMT -8
Does YNNNY know Sorian is the last scum tho? That's the question that remains. If she doesn't know Sorian is the last scum, he can safely shoot her. If she does knos, then he has no choice but to roleblock or lose. YNNY thought terra was scum And again, for believing terra was bs'ing about something he was 100% honest about hey, no "And again, for believing terra was bs'ing about something he was 100% honest about" <-- this isn't right i didnt scumread him cuz i thought he was bullshitting~ i believed him that he was honest but his reaction to my poke was way too defensive. it is his reaction that made me iffy about him. cuz like, i poked stan and febe too about post requirements, because we DID just come out of a mostly inactive games in S6, but they didn't whine about my pokes in return in short it was terra's response that made me scumread him. it was way too defensive. i can see now, having read maf thread, that he was much more active in maf thread but very low activity in game thread.
|
|
|
Post by Hyperactivity on Jul 31, 2016 23:24:51 GMT -8
YNNY thought terra was scum And again, for believing terra was bs'ing about something he was 100% honest about hey, no "And again, for believing terra was bs'ing about something he was 100% honest about" <-- this isn't right i didnt scumread him cuz i thought he was bullshitting~ i believed him that he was honest but his reaction to my poke was way too defensive. it is his reaction that made me iffy about him. cuz like, i poked stan and febe too about post requirements, because we DID just come out of a mostly inactive games in S6, but they didn't whine about my pokes in return in short it was terra's response that made me scumread him. it was way too defensive. i can see now, having read maf thread, that he was much more active in maf thread but very low activity in game thread.
A. You're including the night phases and pre-game, which gives terra more time to talk B. Yeah, scum thread is easier to talk in because you don't have a bunch of people applying semi-randomly generated pre-conceived notions onto you and your every action C. People can have different reactions to pokes, or should his have been the exact same? D. Being defensive is.... what are people supposed to be when they're getting accused. Just automatic "give up" mode? "You're right"? Dude defends his activity, because unlike Stan and febe, he thinks his activity has a reason. Stan and febe don't. There isn't much else you can get out of that
|
|
|
Post by yn on Jul 31, 2016 23:31:30 GMT -8
but hey hyper
1. we ALL know the requirements before we sign up 2. it's not like he was singled out (i also poked others)
so? blowing up like that made me noticed him, i guess? my bad??????????
but no, i resent being painted like i was hounding him cuz i thought he was bullshitting. i just thought he made himself stick out like a sore thumb with that post, and i dont think im the ONLY ONE who felt that way about the way he was reacting. if i recall, sophsoph and cabot also felt it was a bit way too defensive for their tastes, as well.
|
|
|
Post by cabot on Jul 31, 2016 23:36:24 GMT -8
I guess that makes up for the somewhat-lucky D1 vote. I didn't really scum-read Hyper because scum Hyper and town Hyper play pretty similarly. Kind of sucks that I finally get a PR and I'm offed so early. I'm usually pretty good at coasting to late game too. My N1 target was cabot because he was one of the late Hyper votes and seemed to just wait until he had a clear majority. Yo L_P, I voted on Hyper when it was 4-3 to Terra, causing a swing. You suck, b.
|
|
|
Post by cabot on Jul 31, 2016 23:40:28 GMT -8
BTW, I wish cabot could display even a bit a remorse. I know he has to play confident if he doesn't want to get lynched, but I am currently still rooting for scum to win, even if it is Sorian. Sorry Sky, I made a case against you and it was fairly strong. I'm not gonna feel remorse for that. I think this is just inexperience, I used to feel really bad when I got it wrong and lynched a town I was sure was scum, but you play more games and you learn that as Town you're gonna be wrong multiple times in the game. There's no point in feeling sad or remorseful about it, you just take the L and move on to what the flip gives you. Most of Town agreed with me that you were a decent scum candidate, that means it was your play, not my mistake. Some people relented with one of your posts at the end, and to be honest it did read as town, but a) badminton + I was trying to stop my flat from exploding so was mostly away for day end b) A scum team mate could have told you to play this post, which would make you look town. I think you learn this, because if you play as Town Leader, you need to be confident in your opinions. Any signs of reluctance can be read as scummy, or just makes you a bad leader. You were asking me questions that I had already answered in previous posts (indicating you're losing track of the game, could be because you have a scum chat to manage as well) You played the 'if i flip town what will you learn' card (you learn from every flip, I made this point) and I just generally scumread you in your style. It's why Hyper's salt is interesting. Your writing style is overly detailed, very cold and distant Hyper. It's why I couldn't get through your posts. Playing townie is basically being as honest and forthright as possible, I never got that from you. You also really didn't go for reads or anything, you need to give your opinion on others with reasons for me to see if I can understand that logic as someone who is Town. Even after your flip, there was so little to glean from your posts. You think it was coincidence you and terra were both on the lynch wagon on D1? Terra was fairly inactive, but when he did post he wasn't saying anything that could help me read him.
|
|
|
Post by cabot on Aug 1, 2016 0:03:33 GMT -8
Looking back I think I should've push for a false claim or counterclaim Ynny. I got too flustered by what was happening lol. This is actually one of the reasons I find open/semi open setups tough. Like in ONUW, I think fake claiming when I know theres a good chance the person with the actual role is out there makes me shrivel up and afraid to claim. I'm afraid of the thunderdome.
|
|
|
Post by Hyperactivity on Aug 1, 2016 0:31:47 GMT -8
but hey hyper 1. we ALL know the requirements before we sign up 2. it's not like he was singled out (i also poked others) so? blowing up like that made me noticed him, i guess? my bad? but no, i resent being painted like i was hounding him cuz i thought he was bullshitting. i just thought he made himself stick out like a sore thumb with that post, and i dont think im the ONLY ONE who felt that way about the way he was reacting. if i recall, sophsoph and cabot also felt it was a bit way too defensive for their tastes, as well. Not painting you as hounding as much as sympathizing with Terra's experience of being scum-read for a reason he finds dumb
|
|
|
Post by Splinter on Aug 1, 2016 1:01:51 GMT -8
Does YNNNY know Sorian is the last scum tho? That's the question that remains. If she doesn't know Sorian is the last scum, he can safely shoot her. If she does knos, then he has no choice but to roleblock or lose. YNNY thought terra was scum And again, for believing terra was bs'ing about something he was 100% honest about The salt on these posts, lol I had the same feeling as Terra. The high activity and short phases made it difficult to keep up and form consistent reads on people (for example I had a theory about masons but completely forgot who it referred to by the end of day 1). However unlike Terra I didn't bring it up in game because, as town, why would I? It accomplishes nothing except to excuse bad reads (town make bad reads anyway) and brings negativity to the thread. I also expected to start being scumread eventually due to my flaky reads (I followed the majority opinion more than I usually do), but as town it didn't bother me - part of the game. As scum I'd probably be frustrated that I was being accused for what I considered to be bad reasons (as you have done). So yeah, I can believe he was being genuine but that doesn't make it not scummy. There's probably something similar in your posts but this was an easier example.
|
|
|
Post by yn on Aug 1, 2016 1:12:00 GMT -8
but hey hyper 1. we ALL know the requirements before we sign up 2. it's not like he was singled out (i also poked others) so? blowing up like that made me noticed him, i guess? my bad?????????? but no, i resent being painted like i was hounding him cuz i thought he was bullshitting. i just thought he made himself stick out like a sore thumb with that post, and i dont think im the ONLY ONE who felt that way about the way he was reacting. if i recall, sophsoph and cabot also felt it was a bit way too defensive for their tastes, as well. Not painting you as hounding as much as sympathizing with Terra's experience of being scum-read for a reason he finds dumb People will scumread for many various reasons. It's mafia. None of us, as townies, operate on perfect knowledge. All we can do is react to things that stick out to us. He may find the reason 'dumb' but most reads would have roots in unlikely places. It would be nice if all the reads have Sherlock Holmes like deductions behind them, but I don't think that's a particularly realistic expectations. But, at the end of the day, you're basically railing at how other people do reads, right? 😵
|
|
|
Post by Splinter on Aug 1, 2016 1:14:01 GMT -8
Neither of these prevent melon being lynched, at which point she flips scum and her posts since Ynnny's claim are 100% ignored. Scum didn't have much chance of saving melon, but they had one -tiny- advantage in knowing that she was bluffing (although I guess they didn't know for sure, it must have seemed likely at least). Melon needed to claim town roleblocker targeting Ynnny both nights. There are some problems to this claim (I think it requires a Serial Killer and I'm not sure if melon's past reads support the claimed night actions). However if the claim was made fast enough and while Ynnny was still in the thread, there is a good chance she'd get cold feet and back down from her claim. At that point you've got a chance to swing a Ynnny lynch, although it's still a long shot, and now melon (if she survives) is committed to a town RB lie. I wouldn't expect her to survive the game on that but it buys time, probably the best outcome you could have gotten under the circumstances. Edit: oh bats already said this in about 10 words. Ok then
|
|
|
Post by Splinter on Aug 1, 2016 1:19:33 GMT -8
Also, now I get to be the one to say this, but Splinter's logic doesn't follow his conclusion. =P 1. There are still a significant amount of unconfirmed townies in this game. 2. Even if the first statement is true, how did he reach the conclusion that Ty is scum from that? Do you remember what post this was referring to?
|
|
|
Post by Hyperactivity on Aug 1, 2016 1:27:24 GMT -8
BTW, I wish cabot could display even a bit a remorse. I know he has to play confident if he doesn't want to get lynched, but I am currently still rooting for scum to win, even if it is Sorian. Sorry Sky, I made a case against you and it was fairly strong. I'm not gonna feel remorse for that. I think this is just inexperience, I used to feel really bad when I got it wrong and lynched a town I was sure was scum, but you play more games and you learn that as Town you're gonna be wrong multiple times in the game. There's no point in feeling sad or remorseful about it, you just take the L and move on to what the flip gives you. Most of Town agreed with me that you were a decent scum candidate, that means it was your play, not my mistake. Some people relented with one of your posts at the end, and to be honest it did read as town, but a) badminton + I was trying to stop my flat from exploding so was mostly away for day end b) A scum team mate could have told you to play this post, which would make you look town. I think you learn this, because if you play as Town Leader, you need to be confident in your opinions. Any signs of reluctance can be read as scummy, or just makes you a bad leader.
You were asking me questions that I had already answered in previous posts (indicating you're losing track of the game, could be because you have a scum chat to manage as well) You played the 'if i flip town what will you learn' card (you learn from every flip, I made this point) and I just generally scumread you in your style. It's why Hyper's salt is interesting. Your writing style is overly detailed, very cold and distant Hyper. It's why I couldn't get through your posts. Playing townie is basically being as honest and forthright as possible, I never got that from you. You also really didn't go for reads or anything, you need to give your opinion on others with reasons for me to see if I can understand that logic as someone who is Town. Even after your flip, there was so little to glean from your posts. You think it was coincidence you and terra were both on the lynch wagon on D1? Terra was fairly inactive, but when he did post he wasn't saying anything that could help me read him. Bolded is so stupid because its 0 actual indication that you are town. Being reluctant shouldn't be a sign of being scum. I don't know how the whole vomit my thought process onto the page, post as I change my feelings on things isn't the exact definition of "honest and forthright". I get that I run in circles, and focus on a stricter look at people's posts, but A. I also tend to rant in the middle of posts B. Whenever I try and go with my gut reads, I can hardly justify it to myself. I end scum-reading everyone in the game because so many people post in a similar manner, and most people have little, sorta dumb reasons to say they're scum if you spin the narrative well enough. So I default to not putting out reads on people unless I've taken a good hard look at their posts. What's differentiate my huge multi-quote posts from Kawl's, or YNNY's the last day? Wasn't really surprised at the other suspects for day 1, and which 3 were scum read more. Melon was sorta nervous day 1, but that doesn't mean much. It was her reads I think I worried about more, especially when I started to get scum-read. L_P generally tries to justify his reads, and is detailed about them, no surprise there. Terra's vote on kawl was really really eeeehhhhhh. And it becoming terra and I, rather than say, melon and I, was partially because I saw terra getting town read more if I was lynched, so voted for him, melon having some defenders, and finally because terra voting for me at a key point would seem more like a swing out of the left field, whereas melon getting the vote in at a key point relieves the suspicion on her gut read on me, and makes my earlier "vote or get out" statement seem positive for her. Finally, I sorta doubted I was going to get as much out of one of my partners flipping as me, hence why I didn't struggle as hard as I really should've (looking back, both terra and I being forced to claim would have been best, but I was worried it would tie terra down too much) As for me: 1) Not a coincidence 2) Not too surprising 3) I just think people scum-read me way too much, and often for sorta bs reasons. 4) And then because the association people have of me being scummy (there hasn't been a game where I haven't been a major lynch candidate early game since Cthulhu), it's easier to "feel" like Hyper is scummy. It's both an easy way to put a read in when people do the whole "GIVE ME TOP 3 SCUM NOW", that people don't question too much. And once someone is on that top 3 list, or bad vibes list, it's alot easier to vote for them once end of day comes around And, would you say my posts or messages on the scum or spectator threads or Discord respectively are any different? I don't have much to hide in those places, but I do the same stuff: Either barely comment randomly on a topic, or start discussing stuff way way too much and out of nowhere and in detail nobody really needs. In fact, if anything else, Harry Potter might have been the last time I got town read at all. 1) Cthulhu - new, benefit of the doubt, posted semi-ridiculously at times, near end of game, and I claimed 2 days in. Also, you want "inconsistent" Hyper? Look at me about nin1000, or trying to figure out what the next couple days are. Seems to get me town-read here. 2) Election - day 1 was oddly quiet, nervous about how to post as scum, and day 2 got comfortable by tunneling on L_P for a totally bs reason. Can see why lynch happened. 3) MGS - speaking of "inconsistent" Hyper. By god.... Does a shit ton of post analysis, but forgets details, misreads posts, etc. Only decides to show up by the end of day 2. At the same time, why does scum want to "intentionally" misread, forget, misremember things again? Ah, it's all a part of some great scum gambit, I'm sure. Scum read by both dead and alive, and people still sort of doubted my analysis after I was revealed to be town. 4) Harry Potter - people town read me for being helpful, although some saw it as trying to control conversation. But 2nd thing hadn't happened so much up till now (HP was probably a part of why people think this now). Day 2, I screw up in being hesitant to vote for KK, but that wasn't ever really a reason behind my lynch. Day 3, I get lynched because Sawneeks had basically what was a cop claim, and because I saw Crab's claim, and decided that the chances of a town helper to a neutral, the way his role overlapped with Enker's, and just the idea of taking out one player screwing over the other was too ridiculous to believe. And also the convenience of that claim clearing someone a bunch of people thought were scum. Sorta justified once the cop thing came up, but logically, Sawneeks waited until 5 minutes before the deadline for that, the night before she would've died, and didnt consider the idea of me purposefully being ignorant. Mixed bag overall. 5) Werewolf 2 - scum read, but I did come into a scum read position, used a stupid "only votes matter" position, and my buddies in the inn believed me. 6) FF - Still don't know how the hell I was allowed to survive. So much bs, everywhere, town Hyper would've called this bullshit so much. Probably have alot to do with some of the bs reasons against me hurting the decent ones (posting style vs wtf is going on with Xam and Hyper or pretyped posts). And Swamped arguably putting herself in a bad position with a few stuff to be scum read with. 7) Love Boat - got scum-read to hell and back. Wasn't too active, kingkitty kept the boat going past day 1. Some stuff I ended up getting scum read over, and then having to defend myself (when they really were meant to be a null impression of me) were dumb, especially the notes. Because Hyper posting notes is a sign of him saying "oh hey, look at me, I'm a townie", and not just the logical "Hey, remember when you said I wasn't catching up. Sorry, that's bs". I could've also just gotten angry about RL and believing me, but didn't feel like it. 8) GAFIA 2 - got scum-read for not posting as much as I normally do, despite every game since Cthulhu having moments where I disappear from the thread, or suddenly lower post count, and Love Boat having me entirely MIA. Again, not a reason for a town read, but not a reason for a scum read either. Subbed out. 9) Bar - was trying to be pro-town as the arsonist. Tried to make a more active day 1, controlling conversation instead. Consensus was to leave me be till later, probably scum but who knows. Get accused of being scum for ridiculously stupid reasons (bathroom). All over the place. tl;dr I'm 90% sure that if another user got scum-read for the same reasons, they'd be called out on their bs. Sorta interested in playing a few games with another community and see if that might be true.
|
|
|
Post by cabot on Aug 1, 2016 1:29:32 GMT -8
Being reluctant was one of the reasons I was seen as scum in Woof 1
|
|
|
Post by cabot on Aug 1, 2016 1:30:20 GMT -8
Being reluctant was why I scumread sophia in Gafia 2.5. Ty himself said he was less bold and more aware of his opinions as scum in DP.
It's a valid point.
|
|
|
Post by Hyperactivity on Aug 1, 2016 1:39:26 GMT -8
Being reluctant was why I scumread sophia in Gafia 2.5. Ty himself said he was less bold and more aware of his opinions as scum in DP. It's a valid point. What's reluctant and what's just basic low activity? In any case, the way you sad reluctant in your post read to me like "You're not allowed to doubt your reads, or backtrack, or think what you were saying earlier was stupid" Which is dumb.
|
|
|
Post by cabot on Aug 1, 2016 1:43:06 GMT -8
by reluctant I mean maybe saying 'oh i think this guy is scum, though hmmm uhhh maaaybe' then you keep posting about this person being scum but with more ooohs and maybes. All the while, you're not laying a vote on this person.
You're just throwing shade without putting your foot down.
I did this as scum, because I knew the people I were putting heat on were Town, so I felt if I acted with more conviction, it would be obvious. By being afraid of being assured in my choice of target, I instead look even more flimsy.
Reluctance also points to you being more aware of your presence, for example if you're in a discrete known team. Like you would be as a scum.
As town, you're in a team but you don't know who is your team, so theres an inherent boldness available to you, since you're in a team but not. You shouldn't hold back, you should go for it since everythings an unknown.
|
|
|
Post by Splinter on Aug 1, 2016 1:45:54 GMT -8
As town you want to do two things: 1) Identify scum 2) Get them lynched
Town leader especially is going to be doing a lot of number 2. To achieve this, you will probably need to appear a lot more confident in your convictions than you actually are. Feeling reluctant is fine, expected even. Displaying reluctance is actively working against your goal of getting this person lynched.
|
|
|
Post by Hyperactivity on Aug 1, 2016 2:23:49 GMT -8
by reluctant I mean maybe saying 'oh i think this guy is scum, though hmmm uhhh maaaybe' then you keep posting about this person being scum but with more ooohs and maybes. All the while, you're not laying a vote on this person. You're just throwing shade without putting your foot down. I did this as scum, because I knew the people I were putting heat on were Town, so I felt if I acted with more conviction, it would be obvious. By being afraid of being assured in my choice of target, I instead look even more flimsy. Reluctance also points to you being more aware of your presence, for example if you're in a discrete known team. Like you would be as a scum. As town, you're in a team but you don't know who is your team, so theres an inherent boldness available to you, since you're in a team but not. You shouldn't hold back, you should go for it since everythings an unknown. As town you want to do two things: 1) Identify scum 2) Get them lynched Town leader especially is going to be doing a lot of number 2. To achieve this, you will probably need to appear a lot more confident in your convictions than you actually are. Feeling reluctant is fine, expected even. Displaying reluctance is actively working against your goal of getting this person lynched. A. Yeah, not putting your vote down is dumb. B. No sure which example we're comparing it to, but throwing shade at someone doesn't mean you scum-read them. The sign of it being complete bs is if they're "gut reading" their way to the day end. C. Showing reluctance, or changing your mind, is just that. You can still think someone is a better lynch for today, but being overly sure is just a sign that you either know more than you let on or you're full of shit and have been full of shit to begin with. Scum and prs get the benefit of being overly sure of themselves. D. The whole "I'm certain xyz is abc" is the most frustrating aspect of town leaders. Town leaders are good for playing mafia for the following reasons 1) Keeping activity up 2) Helping lower activity or newer players get comfortable The idea that they're not allowed to backtrack or they can't really admit they're wrong is just dumb. Your reads should be good enough to stand on their own. Having doubts over a lynch doesn't me that player isn't the best lynch in your opinion. As to why it's frustrating, overly self-assured people are annoying. Like me when I'm salty. Self-assurance should be called out for being bs. Expressing reservations just means you've actually thought this through a bit. Like, weighed why someone should be scum, weighed why someone should be town, and decided. Until then, best approach is calling when someone is bs'ing HARD, and has a regular pattern of it. You get to be overly confident as an ordinary if your target 99% is probably because they're fucking up repeatedly HARD. Maybe next game I'm in I'll just take a random player, and try to spin them a million and one ways in an obvious fake post to show what I mean.
|
|
|
Post by Sophia on Aug 1, 2016 9:53:15 GMT -8
Also, now I get to be the one to say this, but Splinter's logic doesn't follow his conclusion. =P 1. There are still a significant amount of unconfirmed townies in this game. 2. Even if the first statement is true, how did he reach the conclusion that Ty is scum from that? Do you remember what post this was referring to? This one www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=211887684&postcount=931
|
|