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Post by Splinter on May 4, 2016 7:11:30 GMT -8
Maybe nin saw Terra targeting Time, while Terra saw nin targeting Time...
(I don't actually think it works like this)
Also gafia leans too heavily on the RL excuse, maybe something that can be discussed end of season.
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Post by Hyperactivity on May 4, 2016 7:32:18 GMT -8
This entirely depends on the remaining scum, but assuming a 3+1 scum arrangement, I actually give scum a decent shot to win this thing
Camjo's job will keep getting tougher and tougher, town has revealed a ton of prs so far, etc.
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Post by cabot on May 4, 2016 8:43:29 GMT -8
Glaswegian buying the drinks? Good one, m8. He's fucked the claim.
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Post by cabot on May 4, 2016 8:44:28 GMT -8
also it's fucking cabot.
Hate this guy so much.
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Post by Sorian on May 4, 2016 8:48:16 GMT -8
also it's fucking cabot. Hate this guy so much. I fixed the role PM, he received it correct.
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Post by Retro on May 4, 2016 9:01:07 GMT -8
I had NO idea you felt so strongly about it, cabot.
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Post by Swamped on May 4, 2016 9:02:29 GMT -8
Glaswegian buying the drinks? Good one, m8. He's fucked the claim. Hahaha XD Ahh maybe the 'problematic' thing will not happen after all... Ouro's claim seems pretty believable so far.
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Post by Retro on May 4, 2016 9:04:47 GMT -8
Just a reminder, spoilers about 2.5 are not permitted in this thread. (No one's done it, but I thought it bore repeating.)
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Post by crimsonfist on May 4, 2016 9:07:27 GMT -8
That fake names question is good, if a bit meta.
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Post by Sorian on May 4, 2016 9:13:17 GMT -8
That fake names question is good, if a bit meta. Aside from personal bias, I think it's impossible to guess alignment based on just role name. I assumed I would have been a scum member if I was in the game as an example (jury is still out on if I'm in the game and if I'm town, scum, or neutral though)
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Post by Retro on May 4, 2016 9:20:17 GMT -8
That fake names question is good, if a bit meta. Aside from personal bias, I think it's impossible to guess alignment based on just role name. I assumed I would have been a scum member if I was in the game as an example (jury is still out on if I'm in the game and if I'm town, scum, or neutral though) But you would only think that because you knew I was running it. If it were anyone else, Sorian as Town would be a legitimate option.
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Post by Sorian on May 4, 2016 9:23:38 GMT -8
Aside from personal bias, I think it's impossible to guess alignment based on just role name. I assumed I would have been a scum member if I was in the game as an example (jury is still out on if I'm in the game and if I'm town, scum, or neutral though) But you would only think that because you knew I was running it. If it were anyone else, Sorian as Town would be a legitimate option. Right, personal bias. The bias in that case wasn't about myself, it was about you
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Post by crimsonfist on May 4, 2016 9:28:21 GMT -8
Hyper's post seemed to suggest that the arsonist is a cow licker, so Ouro would be lying then
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Post by weemadarthur on May 4, 2016 9:51:01 GMT -8
I expected Palmer, as a role, to be non town. Sorian being scum would not be a surprise to me though. I've played with scum Sorian. Everyone seems to be taking ouro's claim at face value. It's interesting to see who is roleblocked currently.
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Post by Sorian on May 4, 2016 9:59:00 GMT -8
Hyper's post seemed to suggest that the arsonist is a cow licker, so Ouro would be lying then There might have been a modification to the role after it left Hyper's hands >_>
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Post by Hyperactivity on May 4, 2016 10:00:11 GMT -8
LOLOL Bwahahahahaha Hahahahahahaha I wish I could be in this game D: Bwahahahaha What's the record on claims per day again? Per early game? Also, why not lynch ouro? Gets rid of a survivor neutral who will be acting in his own and his cowlicks' interests, one off of the arsonist count, etc, That fake names question is good, if a bit meta. Aside from personal bias, I think it's impossible to guess alignment based on just role name. I assumed I would have been a scum member if I was in the game as an example (jury is still out on if I'm in the game and if I'm town, scum, or neutral though) Looking back, that was sort of an issue in GAFIA 1. Scum team was mainly players known somewhat for scum play. Only player known especially as scum to be town was Swamped, who couldn't claim Etc.
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Post by Hyperactivity on May 4, 2016 10:02:27 GMT -8
Hyper's post seemed to suggest that the arsonist is a cow licker, so Ouro would be lying then There might have been a modification to the role after it left Hyper's hands >_> You're kidding me.... So my one contribution to this whole thing was basically useless In that case, thank god 1st night got RNGed Also, I had asked Retro if I could send Camjo that mini-essay to give him an idea of what I was thinking, help him catch up. If the change was major, then he would've been so confused lol
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Post by weemadarthur on May 4, 2016 10:02:43 GMT -8
Lynching a non killing neutral would be a waste of a lynch.
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Post by Sorian on May 4, 2016 10:06:00 GMT -8
There might have been a modification to the role after it left Hyper's hands >_> You're kidding me.... So my one contribution to this whole thing was basically useless In that case, thank god 1st night got RNGed Also, I had asked Retro if I could send Camjo that mini-essay to give him an idea of what I was thinking, help him catch up. If the change was major, then he would've been so confused lol It doesn't change win condition or anything, it's actually a change that effects the rest of the game balance and hardly changes much for the arsonist specifically.
Lynching a non killing neutral would be a waste of a lynch. Not really, it's not considered a mislynch and if they are thinking that the arso needs to kill a specific amount of players (which is wrong but seems to be the theory) then it is a smart lynch. They won't realize that though lol
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Post by Hyperactivity on May 4, 2016 10:06:27 GMT -8
On meta for fake names: Best solution for GAFIA is to make it a semi-open game. Provide a set number of names, but don't say which ones are used I'm also assuming the mandatory aspect of dousing was in the updated version of the role, right?
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Post by crimsonfist on May 4, 2016 10:09:05 GMT -8
Non killing neutrals can still be a threat to town, especially if the game reaches LYLO and they have a survivor clause.
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Post by Sorian on May 4, 2016 10:11:32 GMT -8
On meta for fake names: Best solution for GAFIA is to make it a semi-open game. Provide a set number of names, but don't say which ones are used I'm also assuming the mandatory aspect of dousing was in the updated version of the role, right? The mandatory aspect of taking action was still in the updated role, yes
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Post by weemadarthur on May 4, 2016 10:11:41 GMT -8
Launchpad refusing to shed more light on night actions. I wonder if this will piss off town when it comes out.
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Post by weemadarthur on May 4, 2016 10:13:43 GMT -8
Non killing neutrals can still be a threat to town, especially if the game reaches LYLO and they have a survivor clause. Eh. On day three I would never support that lynch. Not that it's applicable in this case anyway.
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Post by Retro on May 4, 2016 10:39:58 GMT -8
Couple of interesting points based on comments above: -We discussed making Palmer scum. I actually suggested making him a Godfather during day 1 of WWE. (Not knowing that he WAS a godfather in WWE. Palmer had to bite his tongue.) -I tried my best to make the scum team not seem scummy, role-wise. Each role has a reason that they weren't invited, and there's a reason for all the killing. -On the open setup suggestion, an early considered role was that YesNOnoNOYes was going to be the wedding planner, and she would start with a list of all the role names from the game. -Also on Ynnny, she actually requested NOT to be a role in Gafia 2, because she was a role for Gafia 1, and she wanted the roster to be mostly people who hadn't been roles before. -There are 5 roles in Gafia 2 who were in Gafia 1. Only one has kept the same power, but the execution was changed. -The change to the Arsonist Role: Originally, the Arsonist couldn't ignite unless he had doused everybody in the game other than himself. By the time we switched Hyper for Camjo, it was clear that this win condition was too difficult, so we gave Camjo the ability to ignite once. (Technically twice, but if he pulls the second ignite without everyone being doused, he loses his win condition.)
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Post by Splinter on May 4, 2016 10:54:38 GMT -8
Eh, you either leave the neutral alive and remember that lylo comes a day early, or you spend a day lynching the neutral. Either way the neutral will cost you one day, so might as well keep him around (especially as Ouro is contributing more than most).
If he WASN'T doused it would be definitely bad to lynch him, as you are on a timer to find the arso. As he is doused it again works out as not making a difference one way or the other.
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Post by Hyperactivity on May 4, 2016 13:37:58 GMT -8
On meta for fake names: Best solution for GAFIA is to make it a semi-open game. Provide a set number of names, but don't say which ones are used I'm also assuming the mandatory aspect of dousing was in the updated version of the role, right? The mandatory aspect of taking action was still in the updated role, yes Hey mods. Here's a better question IMO. Why wasn't I able to not move? Disregarding the change, in the original setup of the game, the arso never made an effect on the number of players left. I know you realized the difficulty of the win condition, but the option to no move in the original situation shouldn't have been an issue, of scum is allowed to withhold kills, etc. I also doubt the arsonist's dousing is necessary for certain aspects of the game, something like a firefighter would've been ridiculous. And given that targets know they are doused, no move is a really useful choice, especially because it convinces town that that person isn't an arsonist
On to relevant things: the role tweak. Hmm, I'm now worried about it tbh. I'm starting to realize that this game is entirely bastard, but, no offense to Retro, I doubt a game balanced for (as far as I've seen) only scum kills can handle the extra load of arsonist kills. Can I suggest you limit the number of people arso kills on 1st ignite to 2?
Unless of course, 1st ignite only refers to burning 1 player
It's 10x easier to write what your thoughts are on things when you don't feel any real pressure to remember multiple faces. BTW, something else I want to talk about, maybe even make a poll for: Reducing the number of players, or at least putting a max limit. Speaking from past experience, unless you have multiple hours to sift through everything, you can't be very analytical, focus, or even remember players after around 20 players, maybe 22. Tbh, the game gets much better and easier when we go down to 14 or less players. At that point, you can easily keep track of and analyze all players. If like to establish a max limit for main season games, or, as an alternative, get rid of that structure as a whole. If we can get games running constantly, with lower volumes of players, I think that would be much easier and help with the inactivity issues GAFIA often faces, If you just have more posts in a game because of a select group or having more people, that means nothing. Or is this just me? In any case, from now on, I think someone should have to heavily heavily justify any number players 24 or higher IMO. Even if they are experienced at designing games
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Post by Swamped on May 4, 2016 13:54:05 GMT -8
For Gafia's 5th anniversary we should do a single 100 player game with factions and stuff.
On a more serious note Hyper - I've definitely had more fun in games with ~23 people or less.
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Post by Retro on May 4, 2016 14:07:39 GMT -8
I'm gonna let Palmer field the balance question. This game IS a bit more of a bastard game than people were expecting - Splinter hasn't even come out to play yet.
I definitely think we should consider a smaller player count for future games, and I think the idea has merit. It's not feasible for Season 6, because most of those games are ready to go, but I think it's something we can look at as a community going into Season 6.5 or 7.
I've thought a lot about getting rid of the Season system, because tbh, we run pretty constantly anyway, but honestly, I think it still has value. The Season system allows us to, every couple of months, clear down and reset. It lets us note who we lost along the way and reach out to them. It lets us recruit in OT as opposed to constantly staying in OT community. And honestly, we usually have a week or two of downtime between seasons, which I get the feeling a lot of people need, especially this season. So, if the community really feels strongly about it, we can look at getting rid of it, but I don't think it's a good idea.
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Post by palmer on May 4, 2016 14:08:40 GMT -8
The mandatory aspect of taking action was still in the updated role, yes Hey mods. Here's a better question IMO. Why wasn't I able to not move? Disregarding the change, in the original setup of the game, the arso never made an effect on the number of players left. I know you realized the difficulty of the win condition, but the option to no move in the original situation shouldn't have been an issue, of scum is allowed to withhold kills, etc. I also doubt the arsonist's dousing is necessary for certain aspects of the game, something like a firefighter would've been ridiculous. And given that targets know they are doused, no move is a really useful choice, especially because it convinces town that that person isn't an arsonist
On to relevant things: the role tweak. Hmm, I'm now worried about it tbh. I'm starting to realize that this game is entirely bastard, but, no offense to Retro, I doubt a game balanced for (as far as I've seen) only scum kills can handle the extra load of arsonist kills. Can I suggest you limit the number of people arso kills on 1st ignite to 2?
Unless of course, 1st ignite only refers to burning 1 player
It's 10x easier to write what your thoughts are on things when you don't feel any real pressure to remember multiple faces. BTW, something else I want to talk about, maybe even make a poll for: Reducing the number of players, or at least putting a max limit. Speaking from past experience, unless you have multiple hours to sift through everything, you can't be very analytical, focus, or even remember players after around 20 players, maybe 22. Tbh, the game gets much better and easier when we go down to 14 or less players. At that point, you can easily keep track of and analyze all players. If like to establish a max limit for main season games, or, as an alternative, get rid of that structure as a whole. If we can get games running constantly, with lower volumes of players, I think that would be much easier and help with the inactivity issues GAFIA often faces, If you just have more posts in a game because of a select group or having more people, that means nothing. Or is this just me? In any case, from now on, I think someone should have to heavily heavily justify any number players 24 or higher IMO. Even if they are experienced at designing games The simple answer is that I personally would not let scum skip a NK either. It's a negative effect and the game is balanced assuming it happens each night. I also don't favor the change to 2shot, as it does make it more swingy, but we'll see what happens with it.
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