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Post by Bombay on Jan 12, 2016 18:22:50 GMT -8
Besides, now we have mediums AND spirit animals as core aspects to this short game? Sorian hung his noose on spirit animals having impact on the game. If it turns out they were a red herring, I think he's scum. And I think they are just that if we have mediums and real spirits.
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Post by Sorian on Jan 12, 2016 18:23:17 GMT -8
This will be two stupid fucking claims in a row that nobody can corroborate. In a ridiculous game with over 30 people including 9 people dying at night with no revealed role claims. People have information and aren't coming forward in anyone's defense, so I'm inclined to think the people who have came forward are full of it Did Splinter ever give a crab number to this game? Honest question? If this is your logic though then whatever. I believe in this ridli lynch, I'll deal with your non-sense tomorrow if I end up being wrong. |
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Post by Sorian on Jan 12, 2016 18:26:14 GMT -8
Besides, now we have mediums AND spirit animals as core aspects to this short game? Sorian hung his noose on spirit animals having impact on the game. If it turns out they were a red herring, I think he's scum. And I think they are just that if we have mediums and real spirits. And yet you are voting for ridli? I feel like you are trying to play both sides of this argument. You're also foolish if you really want to assume that the market that each player got was just a red herring but believe what you will. |
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Post by Sorian on Jan 12, 2016 18:26:58 GMT -8
Marker* that each player got, sorry.
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Post by Ty4on on Jan 12, 2016 18:40:13 GMT -8
Besides, now we have mediums AND spirit animals as core aspects to this short game? Sorian hung his noose on spirit animals having impact on the game. If it turns out they were a red herring, I think he's scum. And I think they are just that if we have mediums and real spirits. Clarify on the spirit animals. Do you think they mean nothing at all? ------- For me a medium makes a lot of sense, but it could be scum being hinted at the existence of a medium (by the mechanics I assume) and trying to out them. It seems a bit too elaborate though and by mentioning that the role had downsides (maybe just so he had an excuse for why he didn't pick it) he also gave the medium a reason not to claim without looking super scummy later in the game. If he is scum the actual medium they are trying to bait out might be a regular, permanent, medium. --------- I'm curious what other people think. Would you have stayed silent as a medium after last night? I'm assuming you don't get role PMs either. |
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Post by Sorian on Jan 12, 2016 18:43:37 GMT -8
I would assume a medium similar to MGS. Only Zipped was dead last night so not much could have been gleaned. They will probably get a lot of info tonight though. If ridli is scum though, this hurts credibility on a claim tomorrow.
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Post by Kawl on Jan 12, 2016 18:45:52 GMT -8
Medium might also help offset the massive loss of information from 9 missing PMs.
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Post by Kawl on Jan 12, 2016 18:46:49 GMT -8
While being a bit of a double edge sword as I think it was in MGS iirc. (Dead scum/3rd parties providing misinformation)
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Post by ridli on Jan 12, 2016 18:50:03 GMT -8
Besides, now we have mediums AND spirit animals as core aspects to this short game? Sorian hung his noose on spirit animals having impact on the game. If it turns out they were a red herring, I think he's scum. And I think they are just that if we have mediums and real spirits. Clarify on the spirit animals. Do you think they mean nothing at all? ------- For me a medium makes a lot of sense, but it could be scum being hinted at the existence of a medium (by the mechanics I assume) and trying to out them. It seems a bit too elaborate though and by mentioning that the role had downsides (maybe just so he had an excuse for why he didn't pick it) he also gave the medium a reason not to claim without looking super scummy later in the game. If he is scum the actual medium they are trying to bait out might be a regular, permanent, medium. --------- I'm curious what other people think. Would you have stayed silent as a medium after last night? I'm assuming you don't get role PMs either. I actually don't think the Medium should claim to save me if they took the job. Better to wait until they have useful info from the dead. I was half hoping someone else had passed on a role who could back me up safely and half pre-verifying them. This way they should be able to claim safely tomorrow. |
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Post by xamtheking on Jan 12, 2016 18:50:48 GMT -8
How do you figure that our claims are in any way connected? I quite simply don't believe in a game with this much BS *insert popular Naruto quote here* |
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Post by Bombay on Jan 12, 2016 18:53:17 GMT -8
Besides, now we have mediums AND spirit animals as core aspects to this short game? Sorian hung his noose on spirit animals having impact on the game. If it turns out they were a red herring, I think he's scum. And I think they are just that if we have mediums and real spirits. Clarify on the spirit animals. Do you think they mean nothing at all? ------- For me a medium makes a lot of sense, but it could be scum being hinted at the existence of a medium (by the mechanics I assume) and trying to out them. It seems a bit too elaborate though and by mentioning that the role had downsides (maybe just so he had an excuse for why he didn't pick it) he also gave the medium a reason not to claim without looking super scummy later in the game. If he is scum the actual medium they are trying to bait out might be a regular, permanent, medium. --------- I'm curious what other people think. Would you have stayed silent as a medium after last night? I'm assuming you don't get role PMs either. They could mean nothing. They could mean something very minor. There's games that have stuff in their role text that are there only for SK roles. We all might have spirit animals purely for the SK win condition. I'm in this camp atm. |
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Post by ridli on Jan 12, 2016 18:58:29 GMT -8
I think spirit animals are a neutral element or a flat out red herring, honestly. I think Sorian is quite solidly in neutral territory as well.
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Post by Sorian on Jan 12, 2016 19:01:59 GMT -8
While being a bit of a double edge sword as I think it was in MGS iirc. (Dead scum/3rd parties providing misinformation) Eh, Coppa did the most damage while he was alive. We were very good about omitting scum and neutral information in our messages to the medium. |
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Post by Sorian on Jan 12, 2016 19:08:36 GMT -8
I think spirit animals are a neutral element or a flat out red herring, honestly. I think Sorian is quite solidly in neutral territory as well. If I were a neutral, why would I be so adamant of everyone hiding their animal which would have to do with me? If you want to argue that they are a red herring then sure but there is some overlap if you think I'm a neutral but don't care about the animals in your other example. |
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Post by Terrabyte20xx on Jan 12, 2016 19:14:16 GMT -8
On the medium thing: I could believe it's real, but I don't see why ridli would bring it up, that alone makes this sketchy.
On the spirit animals: I highly doubt they're a red herring, and I don't think this and the medium are exclusive, maybe the medium can only talk to dead people with specific spirit animals for example.
Regardless, ridli's claim reeks of scum desperation.
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Post by Coppanuva on Jan 12, 2016 20:19:01 GMT -8
While being a bit of a double edge sword as I think it was in MGS iirc. (Dead scum/3rd parties providing misinformation) Eh, Coppa did the most damage while he was alive. We were very good about omitting scum and neutral information in our messages to the medium. I still get warm fuzzies thinking about that. But yes, town was able to effectively communicate with the medium there, its just the surviving town who doubted it. This situation might be a bit trickier (assuming the role really DOES exist) because the medium has to deal with a set of players who we may not be able to trust at all. We have a set of 9 players with no alignments known, how does the medium know who to trust? Is Tim going to be in the arguments for later? I believe I asked about him too (going to click post and go back and check my question to you now, I think Tim was all that was missed). Yup coming up. It took a bit longer since it was more in-depth to look at and I just didn't have the time this afternoon at work. But I'm home now and freer! So without further ado... CzarTim: Day 1 he seemed to target mainly Blarg (for meta reasons), You (claiming you might be neutral, later saying neutral/town), and Nin. He ended voting on Scrafty but I couldn't quite follow his logic in placing that vote down. Day 2 he pushed on Nin and Scrafty as his main targets, though he's still not too hot on you Sorian. Right now I'm getting a feeling he doesn't care who dies of Ridli or Nin, given that he waffled between them so freely earlier in this day. He changed his vote within 5 minutes for a pretty flimsy reason. I'm a little concerned that this might be trying to push us to decide between 2 targets, neither of who are people we want to be killing. Ridli: I'm readdressing him here since he became an even hotter conversation topic. I'm not quite sure here. On one hand, making up a travelling role is just kinda farfetch'd, and he picked an odd one to make up. I can't really see why you would think that's a reasonable lie to make up is all. I don't think his death is going to give us any definitive answers on how truthful it is or not though, only lead to more speculation and talk tomorrow.Regardless, we shouldn't be turbo'ing on him. Sorian (I don't think I touched on you?): I'm still maintaining my general stance on you. I think you're always too high a value target for scum to kill that lynching you this early isn't the best choice. You've painted an even bigger target on your back with your early claims (and I'm still curious exactly what you're alluding to), but I don't fully distrust you right now. You gave us a lot of information on D1, and caused a lot of confusion. I don't think a scum player would put themselves in the spotlight that much early on, nor talk about so many different things. I don't know if you're neutral or town, but I don't think you're scum. Did I miss anyone else you asked about? |
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Post by Sorian on Jan 12, 2016 20:25:12 GMT -8
Eh, Coppa did the most damage while he was alive. We were very good about omitting scum and neutral information in our messages to the medium. I still get warm fuzzies thinking about that. But yes, town was able to effectively communicate with the medium there, its just the surviving town who doubted it. This situation might be a bit trickier (assuming the role really DOES exist) because the medium has to deal with a set of players who we may not be able to trust at all. We have a set of 9 players with no alignments known, how does the medium know who to trust? Is Tim going to be in the arguments for later? I believe I asked about him too (going to click post and go back and check my question to you now, I think Tim was all that was missed). Yup coming up. It took a bit longer since it was more in-depth to look at and I just didn't have the time this afternoon at work. But I'm home now and freer! So without further ado... CzarTim: Day 1 he seemed to target mainly Blarg (for meta reasons), You (claiming you might be neutral, later saying neutral/town), and Nin. He ended voting on Scrafty but I couldn't quite follow his logic in placing that vote down. Day 2 he pushed on Nin and Scrafty as his main targets, though he's still not too hot on you Sorian. Right now I'm getting a feeling he doesn't care who dies of Ridli or Nin, given that he waffled between them so freely earlier in this day. He changed his vote within 5 minutes for a pretty flimsy reason. I'm a little concerned that this might be trying to push us to decide between 2 targets, neither of who are people we want to be killing. Ridli: I'm readdressing him here since he became an even hotter conversation topic. I'm not quite sure here. On one hand, making up a travelling role is just kinda farfetch'd, and he picked an odd one to make up. I can't really see why you would think that's a reasonable lie to make up is all. I don't think his death is going to give us any definitive answers on how truthful it is or not though, only lead to more speculation and talk tomorrow.Regardless, we shouldn't be turbo'ing on him. Sorian (I don't think I touched on you?): I'm still maintaining my general stance on you. I think you're always too high a value target for scum to kill that lynching you this early isn't the best choice. You've painted an even bigger target on your back with your early claims (and I'm still curious exactly what you're alluding to), but I don't fully distrust you right now. You gave us a lot of information on D1, and caused a lot of confusion. I don't think a scum player would put themselves in the spotlight that much early on, nor talk about so many different things. I don't know if you're neutral or town, but I don't think you're scum. Did I miss anyone else you asked about? Nope, that was all from my list. Don't feel the need to cater to my list at all though, just give us reads as things go along. I imeagine catching up with the thread was harder than being in the moment but on the flip side, reading you is harder with you being a blank slate day 1. |
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Post by cabot on Jan 13, 2016 1:19:44 GMT -8
Surely if ridli flips town, we can believe the medium claim.
Like, why would you make this up if you were actually town?
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Post by triggergaf on Jan 13, 2016 1:20:24 GMT -8
I don't think the spirit animals are a complete red herring. One thing that I can agree ridli with is the idea that they're possibly linked to a win condition of a neutral.
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Post by cabot on Jan 13, 2016 1:22:40 GMT -8
My vote will be on ridli. There's too many questions here for him to survive this day without a flip, if he's neutral or scum we can discount the medium unless it comes up again with some form of info. If he's town and ordinary, we can suspect it could be true. If he's a town PR, I have no idea what to think.
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Post by cabot on Jan 13, 2016 1:24:41 GMT -8
I'm also currently not ruling out the possibility that the only way to see role PMs is via lynch. Worst case scenario planning.
If ridli is killed at night and no PM is given, I feel that could be a real problem considering what he has now said.
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Post by triggergaf on Jan 13, 2016 1:28:21 GMT -8
*Bombay not ridli
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Post by cabot on Jan 13, 2016 1:30:17 GMT -8
I want dwell too much on this point, because it's pure meta. But both Palmer and LoC were ejected due to a Splinter slip, probably involving role PMs.
Something to think about. Then to forget because it's weak conjecture.
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Post by cabot on Jan 13, 2016 1:30:40 GMT -8
I won't dwell.
AIDS!
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Post by cornb on Jan 13, 2016 3:01:37 GMT -8
Surely if ridli flips town, we can believe the medium claim. Like, why would you make this up if you were actually town? Sorian's concern is that the problem lies in the fact that the medium could still be of neutral/scum alignment. However, I disagree. If I'm right (about there being no PMs in general except if via lynch), then the medium is clearly a tool to help town. Actually about that, Sorian you said your PM will only be seen once we you permanently gone. Is that outright said in your role PM or are you guessing based on what happened to you when you temporarily died? Because if the latter, maybe its actually that we only get PMs with lynches. Though I'll admit that's unlikely. If the medium is a tool to get around that disadvantage, we lose the game once we lose the medium almost. |
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Post by Roytheone on Jan 13, 2016 4:06:08 GMT -8
Some interesting things happened while I was asleep.
I think there being a medium isn't that much of a stretch. It would fit the theme and the game mechanics: lack of information seem to be a core aspect of this game so there being a role which main function is to provide information would make sense. The medium not knowing who is scum and town because of no role PM also would make the role more balanced, and could explain the lack of role PM's. The role being offered to him is a bit weird, but honestly I get the feeling this game is completely insane, so people being offered/given new (limited use) powers during the night wouldn't surprise me one bit. However, a couple of things make me feel less good about Ridli his claim:
- It being offered before the game even starts. This game is insane, but having to make game relevant decisions before the game even officially began? Thats a whole new level of insane.
- Ridli refusing it. Why would you refuse being upgraded from an ordinary to a very interesting PR? Even if it had drawbacks? Also, the possibility that the role could be offered to scum or a neutral is even more reason NOT to refuse it. Of course, this kind of depends how severe the drawbacks are, but Ridli is being vague about that aspect.
- Him outing this information right now. If someone else took the deal last night, it is clear they are not feeling comfortable claiming yet, since they would probably have done it by now, I doubt the added benefit of clearing an ordinary towny that openly stated he is done with the game will change that. He said he hoped another one refused the deal and would clear him, but this is linked to point 2: I actually find it unlikely someone would refuse the deal, again kinda depending on the drawbacks.
So I find a big part of his claim to be likely, but there are a couple of details that make me feel bad about it. I don't know how the vote count is right now, but I will probably be switching to Ridli today.
I do have one questions for him: Did the offer tell you what kind of Medium power you would receive precisely? Is it more a MGS game kind of medium, or more like Town of Salem?
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Post by cabot on Jan 13, 2016 4:46:08 GMT -8
hey guys, remember that nin1000 bloke?
What a distant memory.
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Post by Sorian on Jan 13, 2016 5:09:23 GMT -8
Surely if ridli flips town, we can believe the medium claim. Like, why would you make this up if you were actually town? Sorian's concern is that the problem lies in the fact that the medium could still be of neutral/scum alignment. However, I disagree. If I'm right (about there being no PMs in general except if via lynch), then the medium is clearly a tool to help town. Actually about that, Sorian you said your PM will only be seen once we you permanently gone. Is that outright said in your role PM or are you guessing based on what happened to you when you temporarily died? Because if the latter, maybe its actually that we only get PMs with lynches. Though I'll admit that's unlikely. If the medium is a tool to get around that disadvantage, we lose the game once we lose the medium almost. I'm guessing based on what happened the first time and just common sense. Obviously Splinter isn't going to flip my role over a temporary death, I think that much is definitely fair to assume. Past that, I'm of the opinion that the only reason we didn't get role flips was because of Zipped and the Volcano last night. Barring other PR related non-sense, tonight should provide flips as usual. hey guys, remember that nin1000 bloke? What a distant memory.  |
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Post by cabot on Jan 13, 2016 5:23:20 GMT -8
I feel like ridli's actions today have let nin off the hook.
You're the worst, nin.
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Post by Sorian on Jan 13, 2016 5:38:49 GMT -8
I feel like ridli's actions today have let nin off the hook. You're the worst, nin. Eh, we can only take care of one player at a time via lynch. Nin has been silent but hasn't damned himself. I do believe he is now the quietest player in the game though, even Trigger and Dusk have popped in more recently. |
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