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Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 9:12:18 GMT -8
Point taken, y'all. It's just that this is my first time (well...second), and I guess I'm just getting a little nervous is all. Gonna lay off for right now. And as far as my opinions on things go, I don't really have much to say. My inexperience coupled with how little we know on day 1 really leaves me with little to work with. I will say that I do think speculating about neutrals or putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims and the like this early probably isn't going to accomplish much and we should probably just focus more on an individuals behavior for the time being and save the other stuff for the next day or two when we have more info. FTR, I'm currently town reading Pop, mostly for this post (Although his first person certainly tickled me, ahh the memories) (Sorry if this next quote gets messed up, I slightly over deleted) All you need to say is what you find weird. You're new and that's fine but you don't need a lot of background knowledge to say that you thought it was weird that so-and-so roleclaimed as this (as an example). Let's try something else then. What should we focus on today? What questions can we ask that will lead to the most productive day 1? But this is a shitty response. I have no problem with people putting disproportionate pressure on the newbie to see if they fuck up. It's mean but hey, welcome to Gafia. It's actually what I thought Kalor was doing when I called him shrewd. But this is after Pop's response above. I thought Pop's response was fine and pretty much agree with it, I've even said the same in previous games. But Sorian doubles down on the pressure and ends by essentially asking " pls explain how to Mafia", which is a bullshit question to ask anyone.
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Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 9:15:05 GMT -8
"first person" should be "first post"
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Post by greatcharleston on Oct 22, 2015 9:18:45 GMT -8
I can't remember when Cabot posted but yeah, I said that to deter others from doing so on the first day phase otherwise things get a little messy.
Fireblend Avatar Oct 22, 2015 17:48:12 GMT 1 Fireblend said: I've played enough with Sorian to know this is how he plays. Even if he is scum, which is a possibility, his level of activity is good for town at the beginning of the game at least IMO. False sense of security, you gotta be able to mingle with the others to easily walk amongst them. That was always Sorian's style.
I'm surprised none of you have yet put any pressure on me, my stealth must be too good. We've got a full day left and I'd honestly be game to kill anyone not that I'm out for blood but with the way we all are it's gonna be a little bit hard to crack anyone open right now. All offensive and defensive posts don't really seem off to me, Pop is showing some first time posts but it's normal. Can't really put pressure of Palmer either about his real life happenings since that would be unfair, although previous players who were scum also were in a similar situation.
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Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 9:22:15 GMT -8
Point taken, y'all. It's just that this is my first time (well...second), and I guess I'm just getting a little nervous is all. Gonna lay off for right now. And as far as my opinions on things go, I don't really have much to say. My inexperience coupled with how little we know on day 1 really leaves me with little to work with. I will say that I do think speculating about neutrals or putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims and the like this early probably isn't going to accomplish much and we should probably just focus more on an individuals behavior for the time being and save the other stuff for the next day or two when we have more info. FTR, I'm currently town reading Pop, mostly for this post (Although his first person certainly tickled me, ahh the memories) (Sorry if this next quote gets messed up, I slightly over deleted) All you need to say is what you find weird. You're new and that's fine but you don't need a lot of background knowledge to say that you thought it was weird that so-and-so roleclaimed as this (as an example). Let's try something else then. What should we focus on today? What questions can we ask that will lead to the most productive day 1? But this is a shitty response. I have no problem with people putting disproportionate pressure on the newbie to see if they fuck up. It's mean but hey, welcome to Gafia. It's actually what I thought Kalor was doing when I called him shrewd. But this is after Pop's response above. I thought Pop's response was fine and pretty much agree with it, I've even said the same in previous games. But Sorian doubles down on the pressure and ends by essentially asking " pls explain how to Mafia", which is a bullshit question to ask anyone. You're trying so hard too, that's fun. I'm not putting disproportionate pressure on Pop because he is new. I'm putting disproportionate pressure on him because he continues to fail at answering direct questions intended for him and only him. If you want to say that he is just ignoring me then feel free to see the current conversation between him and Swamped. Pop's response in this post is trash. It reads like someone who obviously doesn't want to get their feet wet or actually make enemies. It's too diplomatic and someone has to be aggressive to figure out if that is because he is new or scum. It's been duly noted though that you're throwing your hat in with him and against me. Let him fight his own battles now.
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Post by cabot on Oct 22, 2015 9:24:41 GMT -8
Since we're here, staring deeply into each other's eyes, wondering the world of each other, I did find it curious why you decided to defend GC so early off the bat. We're all experienced here, we don't need much help when someone questions us. Early alliances seems a risky strategy, unless you know something we don't. I'll just expand on Sorian's thought that it is worth noting these little 'throwaway' lines and claims or whatever. People who seem to be intent on writing them off as 'facetious' are being too accommodating in my opinion. Sure, it's obviously not strong evidence but discarding it completely is the wrong way to go about it. I say this as a person who has used early posts in the past to hint at things. It's Day 1. It's about the best time to play with coy statements that may be linked to something you know. 1. Wow, "alliance", exaggerating much? I agree with others, I think looking too deeply at GC and Splinter's claims is too WIFOM at this stage. I'm more interested in how people reacted to those claims. I will say this - there are many reasons people act weirdly during D1, and it's not necessarily because they are scum. I also think it's noteworthy that GC reacted to others calling him out on his claim (ughh multiquoting here is such a pain), he essentially said that he was having fun with the flavor. Splinter, I don't think addressed his NK immune statement however? I'll just leave it at that. 2. Now this might be a little harsh on my part, but I see Cabot calling out GC as some form of role-fishing . Keeping my eye on you Cabot! 3. Next - OMGUS. So far three people have done this. Me, Pop, and Palmer. I know that I'm joking. Regarding Pop/Kalor, was really hoping that Kalor would chime in about their votes for each other. I remember Splinter did a OMGUS vote in DR as a first time mafia. Not that this means anything regarding Pop, Pop hasn't posted enough for me to even have a gut feeling about him. However, Palmer...he states he finds Splinter's RC suspicious, and yet votes for Cabot just cause. He also says that would be his last post this day phase, which is totally fine, so I'm not expecting him to argue back or anything. I'm not planning on voting to lynch him at this stage since he hasn't had a chance to post much, but I'm going to keep a close eye on him. Sorian voted for me, I think because I liked my own post? Is there some other reason you have kept your vote on me? Since then you have called out other players on suspicious behavior, but I notice you didn't reflect that in your vote. Scrafty used the term 'Philanthropy' to refer to the mafia. I'm not that familiar with the source material, but I would like to know if everyone assumed that that was the name of the mafia faction. Like I said previously, it's not clear from our win condition what the mafia faction is called. I feel like the discussion about the number of neutral/mafia parties is kind of counterproductive at this early stage of the game. So yeah, keeping an eye on Sorian, Cabot and Palmer, with some others in there too. Of course, it's too early to really have anything definitive on anyone. What one person finds scummy, another may not. VOTE: Sorian1. I don't think anything I've done has implied I'm looking at the comments deeply. I've looked at them, and considering the other options at that point were RNG, I think I was right to raise them as a point. I obviously didn't think much of these comments, I haven't thrown a vote on GC or Splinter (though Splinter is pushing it) Alliance may have been a strong adjective, but your reaction seems a bit defensive. You did stick up for him, its not like I screamed to the heavens declaring GC to be scum of the earth or anything, why did you feel it necessary to cover him? I want the words from the horse's mouth! Not that you're a horse, GC. 2. Role fishing? He made a statement and I took the most obvious inference from it. 3. He voted for me because I voted for him, I don't think there's anything else to it. Splinter, you're the worst. I don't really know what to make of Pop seeing his votes and instead of offering up thoughts of the day so far, instead throws a vote on Matt and and demands him to make a case. You've still to make a case, pal. Is there anyone so far who's rubbing you the wrong way? What about the theories on scum/neutral head counts? Give us some input.
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Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 9:25:02 GMT -8
I can't remember when Cabot posted but yeah, I said that to deter others from doing so on the first day phase otherwise things get a little messy. Fireblend Avatar Oct 22, 2015 17:48:12 GMT 1 Fireblend said: I've played enough with Sorian to know this is how he plays. Even if he is scum, which is a possibility, his level of activity is good for town at the beginning of the game at least IMO. False sense of security, you gotta be able to mingle with the others to easily walk amongst them. That was always Sorian's style. I'm surprised none of you have yet put any pressure on me, my stealth must be too good. We've got a full day left and I'd honestly be game to kill anyone not that I'm out for blood but with the way we all are it's gonna be a little bit hard to crack anyone open right now. All offensive and defensive posts don't really seem off to me, Pop is showing some first time posts but it's normal. Can't really put pressure of Palmer either about his real life happenings since that would be unfair, although previous players who were scum also were in a similar situation. Nah, at least in my case, I can't nail you down with pressure. I've learned that already. So I'll have to find different ways to get to you once more information surfaces. I've found you to be pretty easy to read once the bodies start to appear and I see no reason why this will be any different than the last times.
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Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 9:24:57 GMT -8
Sorry I actually forgot this in my earlier post:
VOTE: Sorian
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Post by cabot on Oct 22, 2015 9:26:18 GMT -8
OK I've just realised there was like two more pages of posts when I made my reply, feck. I really don't like page numbers at the top.
I may also be drunk
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Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 9:28:00 GMT -8
OK I've just realised there was like two more pages of posts when I made my reply, feck. I really don't like page numbers at the top. I may also be drunk Am I still the worst?
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Post by cabot on Oct 22, 2015 9:33:25 GMT -8
I'm not sure I like this little thing with Sorian you have. I think you're no longer the worst.
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Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 9:34:07 GMT -8
I'm not sure I like this little thing with Sorian you have. I think you're no longer the worst. Aww I love you too <3
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Post by greatcharleston on Oct 22, 2015 9:36:37 GMT -8
Nah, at least in my case, I can't nail you down with pressure. I've learned that already. So I'll have to find different ways to get to you once more information surfaces. I've found you to be pretty easy to read once the bodies start to appear and I see no reason why this will be any different than the last times. This is true but it's all relative to how long you last in the game and the same goes for me, I'm always seen as a low priority threat and you're very high. Well, not to me but most others. I don't fairly play like most everyone else.
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Post by cabot on Oct 22, 2015 9:37:43 GMT -8
Palmer being out mostly until Sunday is kind of a pain in the arse, the last time he did this he ended up slowly burned with little chance to defend himself.
Difference is back in Election I was pretty sure he was town. I don't know now, why he voted me over Splinter is an oddity, and hopefully he'll be a little more clear when he next posts.
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Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 9:47:34 GMT -8
Sorry I actually forgot this in my earlier post: VOTE: SorianJust to make sure we are square. Your original suspicion against me is because you think I was ready to throw down with you but never actually followed up with a vote. Which read to you like me trying to gauge support for a lynch, not seeing it, and then giving up and moving elsewhere? I don't care about your later reasoning because now you are just reading through my posts and tunneling to find anything bad and anyone I attack as good, but is that the original place where you suspicion arose?
I ask because I want to follow that train of thought and see if there is any logic in it. Let's take the main four scenarios first:
We are both scum: Always a possibility, I don't think you are actually going to garner enough votes to get me today and I've already made it clear I have no interest in you at the moment so this could be a no loss gambit that could end up paying off if one of us were to get lynched and the other one would start to look pretty good.
I am inno/you are scum: This would be ballsy on your part. The opening with "I am NK immune" was a garbage play to begin with but now you are doubling down on one of the few people that took your claim seriously. Sweeping it under the carpet as it were? In this scenario though, I'm not voting for you because I think you're so obvious that it would just waste away day one when we don't have a lot to go and, on the chance that I'm wrong, the whole day is a wash.
I am scum/you are inno: For the sake of being thorough, I'll try to explain this scenario but you should probably chime in as well if you think I'm wrong here. I was testing the waters trying to get the NK immune player lynched so we don't have to worry about it. Seems like a safe assumption until you really think about it and realize that scum would have no reason to try and get you lynched now. If you are NK immune then why would scum care? You've now outed yourself and you aren't NK immune AND have an ability so scum could just safely ignore you. The fact that you opened up with such an anti-town move means you aren't in danger of making it very far either so even if the NK thing was a bluff to hide your real PR then whatever, your lynch will only get easier as time goes on.
We are both inno: A lot of the same from the "I am scum/you are inno" category except I'm not in scum's good graces to know their thoughts on the matter. My reasoning is the same where I was inno above, being that you set the target on yourself now anyway and I don't want to waste day 1, and your logic is the same above where you were inno.
We could then get into the gritty of what it all means if one of us was neutral but let's just pretend that inno above means foxhound-aligned and scum means philanthropy-aligned.
At the end of the day, all I really see after typing that all out is that Sorian as scum would have no reason to even acknowledge your NK claim and Splinter as scum is dying D2 or D3 anyway.
If anything, that little exercise at least told me that people who didn't take Splinter's claim seriously have a higher probability of being scum.
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Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 9:50:05 GMT -8
Nah, at least in my case, I can't nail you down with pressure. I've learned that already. So I'll have to find different ways to get to you once more information surfaces. I've found you to be pretty easy to read once the bodies start to appear and I see no reason why this will be any different than the last times. This is true but it's all relative to how long you last in the game and the same goes for me, I'm always seen as a low priority threat and you're very high. Well, not to me but most others. I don't fairly play like most everyone else. If someone else removes you in the meantime, that is only beneficial for me in terms of having to attempt to read you. If no one removes you but then I'm gone, I would hope that the community has started to wise up to you a bit because you seemed to be this huge enigma to some of them during Gafia.
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Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 9:50:24 GMT -8
I'm not sure I like this little thing with Sorian you have. I think you're no longer the worst. I didn't mean to triple post, I should have quoted this and put it in above. Sorry!
Are you saying that makes me the worst then?
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Post by cabot on Oct 22, 2015 9:53:35 GMT -8
Point taken, y'all. It's just that this is my first time (well...second), and I guess I'm just getting a little nervous is all. Gonna lay off for right now. And as far as my opinions on things go, I don't really have much to say. My inexperience coupled with how little we know on day 1 really leaves me with little to work with. I will say that I do think speculating about neutrals or putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims and the like this early probably isn't going to accomplish much and we should probably just focus more on an individuals behavior for the time being and save the other stuff for the next day or two when we have more info. FTR, I'm currently town reading Pop, mostly for this post (Although his first person certainly tickled me, ahh the memories) (Sorry if this next quote gets messed up, I slightly over deleted) All you need to say is what you find weird. You're new and that's fine but you don't need a lot of background knowledge to say that you thought it was weird that so-and-so roleclaimed as this (as an example). Let's try something else then. What should we focus on today? What questions can we ask that will lead to the most productive day 1? But this is a shitty response. I have no problem with people putting disproportionate pressure on the newbie to see if they fuck up. It's mean but hey, welcome to Gafia. It's actually what I thought Kalor was doing when I called him shrewd. But this is after Pop's response above. I thought Pop's response was fine and pretty much agree with it, I've even said the same in previous games. But Sorian doubles down on the pressure and ends by essentially asking " pls explain how to Mafia", which is a bullshit question to ask anyone. Sorry Splinter, I'm not with you on this. Being new can be tough, but it's trial by fire. Sorian's response was good, clear and i thought pretty welcoming. I feel like the 'I'm new and its tough' card is a valid play to try and remove suspicion. It could be legit, but it's a pretty nice shield for D1, where information is scarce and it's one of the few periods where you have to get in other's faces to try and get some real results. While I won't say Pop is lying, it most certainly could be a cover. Your aloofness to your NK claim since is slightly more worrying.
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Post by cabot on Oct 22, 2015 9:55:10 GMT -8
I'm not sure I like this little thing with Sorian you have. I think you're no longer the worst. I didn't mean to triple post, I should have quoted this and put it in above. Sorry!
Are you saying that makes me the worst then?
No way buddy, you're an asset D1. I've said this quite a lot in past games, but people that initiate discussion and prod are invaluable at this stage. If you're scum, there will be plenty of opportunities to slip up as time progresses.
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Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 10:03:09 GMT -8
FTR, I'm currently town reading Pop, mostly for this post (Although his first person certainly tickled me, ahh the memories) (Sorry if this next quote gets messed up, I slightly over deleted) But this is a shitty response. I have no problem with people putting disproportionate pressure on the newbie to see if they fuck up. It's mean but hey, welcome to Gafia. It's actually what I thought Kalor was doing when I called him shrewd. But this is after Pop's response above. I thought Pop's response was fine and pretty much agree with it, I've even said the same in previous games. But Sorian doubles down on the pressure and ends by essentially asking " pls explain how to Mafia", which is a bullshit question to ask anyone. Sorry Splinter, I'm not with you on this. Being new can be tough, but it's trial by fire. Sorian's response was good, clear and i thought pretty welcoming. I feel like the 'I'm new and its tough' card is a valid play to try and remove suspicion. It could be legit, but it's a pretty nice shield for D1, where information is scarce and it's one of the few periods where you have to get in other's faces to try and get some real results. While I won't say Pop is lying, it most certainly could be a cover. Your aloofness to your NK claim since is slightly more worrying. Ah, I'll have to backpedal slightly here. I meant to say the second paragraph of Pop's comment was good. The "I'm new" but doesn't do him any favours in my eyes, but the rest of the post made up for it. Trial by fire is great, you questioned Pop recently in a response to Swamped and that was a way better line of questioning than Sorian's, which is why I commented on Sorian's but left your's for Pop I don't why everyone is so uptight about my claim, I was just being friendly guys sheesh
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Post by Hyperactivity on Oct 22, 2015 10:04:43 GMT -8
just a warning, but my final vote will be in the next 40 minutes, after which I won't be able to change it
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Post by cabot on Oct 22, 2015 10:06:59 GMT -8
just a warning, but my final vote will be in the next 40 minutes, after which I won't be able to change it Oh, well is this a mechanic or......some kind of rule you've given yourself?
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Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 10:07:25 GMT -8
Sorry Splinter, I'm not with you on this. Being new can be tough, but it's trial by fire. Sorian's response was good, clear and i thought pretty welcoming. I feel like the 'I'm new and its tough' card is a valid play to try and remove suspicion. It could be legit, but it's a pretty nice shield for D1, where information is scarce and it's one of the few periods where you have to get in other's faces to try and get some real results. While I won't say Pop is lying, it most certainly could be a cover. Your aloofness to your NK claim since is slightly more worrying. Ah, I'll have to backpedal slightly here. I meant to say the second paragraph of Pop's comment was good. The "I'm new" but doesn't do him any favours in my eyes, but the rest of the post made up for it. Trial by fire is great, you questioned Pop recently in a response to Swamped and that was a way better line of questioning than Sorian's, which is why I commented on Sorian's but left your's for Pop I don't why everyone is so uptight about my claim, I was just being friendly guys sheesh Asking a new player what they feel is important during day 1 is a worse line of questioning?
You like the second part of his post, the part where he says that "putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims" won't get us anywhere?
You were just being friendly?
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Post by Cherry Bomb on Oct 22, 2015 10:10:49 GMT -8
Hm, Splinter isn't doing himself any favours right now. I'm going to keep my vote on Gorlak though because he's still maintaining radio silence.
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Post by Hyperactivity on Oct 22, 2015 10:13:22 GMT -8
just a warning, but my final vote will be in the next 40 minutes, after which I won't be able to change it Oh, well is this a mechanic or......some kind of rule you've given yourself? RL
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Post by Ourobolus on Oct 22, 2015 10:13:10 GMT -8
"favours" = can of fingernails
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Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 10:19:33 GMT -8
Asking a new player what they feel is important during day 1 is a worse line of questioning? [/p]
You like the second part of his post, the part where he says that "putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims" won't get us anywhere?
You were just being friendly? [/quote] Oh sorry did you want to know what Pop thought important day 1? Here let me get that for you... I do think speculating about neutrals or putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims and the like this early probably isn't going to accomplish much and we should probably just focus more on an individuals behavior for the time being and save the other stuff for the next day or two when we have more info. I trimmed the fat and even added a little bolding for you, hope this helps.
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Post by Lone_Prodigy on Oct 22, 2015 10:25:06 GMT -8
I feel like I've seen Splinter v. Sorian before.
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Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 10:26:37 GMT -8
Asking a new player what they feel is important during day 1 is a worse line of questioning?
You like the second part of his post, the part where he says that "putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims" won't get us anywhere?
You were just being friendly? Oh sorry did you want to know what Pop thought important day 1? Here let me get that for you... I do think speculating about neutrals or putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims and the like this early probably isn't going to accomplish much and we should probably just focus more on an individuals behavior for the time being and save the other stuff for the next day or two when we have more info. I trimmed the fat and even added a little bolding for you, hope this helps.
Oh fantastic, good thing I still asked him my question though because then we got this flustered follow up.
All you need to say is what you find weird. You're new and that's fine but you don't need a lot of background knowledge to say that you thought it was weird that so-and-so roleclaimed as this (as an example). Let's try something else then. What should we focus on today? What questions can we ask that will lead to the most productive day 1? *shrug* IDF'NK. I guess...start casually, then start looking for suspicious dialog and behavior, then start hammering to see if they can provide a decent explanation or if they start to crack even further (which, by this logic, would make me a prime target for lynching ) So I have a dumb question for Pop-O-Matic (and Kalor): What do you think of Kalor's lack of response to your vote on him? This is a question more designed to understand both Pop and Kalor's playstyles better. Uh... I looked at the list of players and picked the first name that I saw and in this case it happened to be Pop. Which is fine but it allowed me to get back to my ORIGINAL question, which he STILL has refused to answer: *shrug* IDF'NK. I guess...start casually, then start looking for suspicious dialog and behavior, then start hammering to see if they can provide a decent explanation or if they start to crack even further (which, by this logic, would make me a prime target for lynching ) Uh... So that brings me back to the original question I asked you about. What suspicious dialog and behavior has resonated with you. So Splinter, again, we are aware that you are going to do everything possible to defend Pop and attack me. That's grand and everyone has noticed. So you can go back and hide in your corner and let Pop actually answer the questions directed at him. Thanks. Don't worry, if he starts struggling, we can assume that you want to be here answering questions in his place.
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Post by Hyperactivity on Oct 22, 2015 10:28:06 GMT -8
I feel like I've seen Splinter v. Sorian before. Nope, they were only together in election and sorian died N1 for that Someone give me an idea of what all is going on, I'm seeing stuff but I'm not really impressed by any arguments and if I need to I'll just put my vote on someone who isn't likely to be lynched today
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Post by Hyperactivity on Oct 22, 2015 10:32:16 GMT -8
From what I'm getting:
Sorian is suspicious of Pop-O-Matic Splinter is defending him We decided to not lynch Sorian because Sorian is useful
Scrafty doesn't like some people, didn't entirely catch who
Some other stuff
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