|
Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 8:19:19 GMT -8
Also when Scrafty listed Philanthropy wasn't it Snake, Otacon etc? Surely they're the good guys? I'm confused, but maybe that's just my lack of source knowledge...
|
|
|
Post by Coppanuva on Oct 22, 2015 8:22:10 GMT -8
Awww Sorian, I was hoping Scrafty was going to answer this and not have someone do it for her. That's the logical thing to assume (I did it myself when I brought up Philanthropy in my post), but answering questions for someone else isn't going to give them the chance to slip up Multiple people have already used their name in reference to the scum team. It would hardly be condemning evidence if someone was confused on why that's become the assumption and it seems like it would be a confusing waste of time as opposed to an actual "gotcha!" moment. You're right, it wouldn't be condemning evidence. But at the same time lots of people (I believe even you), have said Day 1 isn't going to turn up conclusive evidence, but it's a foundation. I wouldn't be running out to lynch Scrafty based on her answer, but if it were somewhat odd, I would keep it in mind in the future. Things add up over time, and that's what we should be looking at.
|
|
|
Post by Pop-O-Matic on Oct 22, 2015 8:22:33 GMT -8
Point taken, y'all. It's just that this is my first time (well...second), and I guess I'm just getting a little nervous is all. Gonna lay off for right now.
And as far as my opinions on things go, I don't really have much to say. My inexperience coupled with how little we know on day 1 really leaves me with little to work with. I will say that I do think speculating about neutrals or putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims and the like this early probably isn't going to accomplish much and we should probably just focus more on an individuals behavior for the time being and save the other stuff for the next day or two when we have more info.
|
|
|
Post by Pop-O-Matic on Oct 22, 2015 8:24:35 GMT -8
Also when Scrafty listed Philanthropy wasn't it Snake, Otacon etc? Surely they're the good guys? I'm confused, but maybe that's just my lack of source knowledge... Yeah, but there's also a lot less of them (as in it's pretty much Snake and Otacon), so it make's sense to make them the mafia.
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Bomb on Oct 22, 2015 8:25:01 GMT -8
I'm still waiting to hear more from Gorlak. He didn't really address my questions beyond a dismissive half-statement and I'm still curious to hear his thoughts on his most suspicious soldados thus far.
|
|
|
Post by Ourobolus on Oct 22, 2015 8:28:04 GMT -8
I feel like I should be translating all of Scrafty's posts for the benefit of everyone else
|
|
|
Post by Coppanuva on Oct 22, 2015 8:32:04 GMT -8
Also when Scrafty listed Philanthropy wasn't it Snake, Otacon etc? Surely they're the good guys? I'm confused, but maybe that's just my lack of source knowledge... That was me who listed those names, I pulled them from this Metal Gear wiki (I'm rusty on my MGS2). Philanthropy is an Anti-Metal Gear group (and was mentioned in the flavor text as being one of the two groups here, the other being FOXHOUND). While they're the protagonist aligned group in the game series, they're also (as Pop pointed out), much less numerous.
Granted, I'm a little concerned with why you're confused as to who's playing the "Town" role here. Surely your role PM would say which side you're aligned with and would clear that right up.
|
|
|
Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 8:34:24 GMT -8
What? "Pressure votes" are pointless? Well, I don't want to say "I told you so" but... Oh wait, nevermind, that's exactly what I want to say Pressure votes aren't pointless in the least. We already had Pop crack from it. They work more than you want to pretend. Also when Scrafty listed Philanthropy wasn't it Snake, Otacon etc? Surely they're the good guys? I'm confused, but maybe that's just my lack of source knowledge... No one ever said that the good guys need to be town and the bad guys be scum. Didn't you pay attention to election game? You're right, it wouldn't be condemning evidence. But at the same time lots of people (I believe even you), have said Day 1 isn't going to turn up conclusive evidence, but it's a foundation. I wouldn't be running out to lynch Scrafty based on her answer, but if it were somewhat odd, I would keep it in mind in the future. Things add up over time, and that's what we should be looking at. Palmer outed me as a PR in election mafia because he tried to "trick" me when in actuality, all of the information that was needed was in the OP. He failed to notice details in the OP that I did and when he thought I had privileged information, that caused me to be painted in a bad light that never went away and cause the town vigilante to shoot me at night. Trying to trap people with information that is accessible to everyone is more likely to lead to a bad result than a good one. Point taken, y'all. It's just that this is my first time (well...second), and I guess I'm just getting a little nervous is all. Gonna lay off for right now. And as far as my opinions on things go, I don't really have much to say. My inexperience coupled with how little we know on day 1 really leaves me with little to work with. I will say that I do think speculating about neutrals or putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims and the like this early probably isn't going to accomplish much and we should probably just focus more on an individuals behavior for the time being and save the other stuff for the next day or two when we have more info. All you need to say is what you find weird. You're new and that's fine but you don't need a lot of background knowledge to say that you thought it was weird that so-and-so roleclaimed as this (as an example). Let's try something else then. What should we focus on today? What questions can we ask that will lead to the most productive day 1?
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Bomb on Oct 22, 2015 8:36:33 GMT -8
Granted, I'm a little concerned with why you're confused as to who's playing the "Town" role here. Surely your role PM would say which side you're aligned with and would clear that right up. My thoughts exactly. No idea why people are confused as to who the bad guys are when Boss mentioned two factions and all but a handful of us should have "aligned with FOXHOUND" in our roles.
|
|
|
Post by Swamped on Oct 22, 2015 8:36:41 GMT -8
This sucks - I have no idea how to shorten quotes without destroying everything!
Ok Sorian, this is definitely harsh of me, because you probably have good intentions, but here's what I mean:
1. You're pinging the quiet players which is fantastic, but this was my go-strategy as scum. It's a low-risk high-reward sort of thing. People assume that scum is quiet, so pinging them seems like a very town thing to do. 2. Your pre-made post about not role-claiming etc was appreciated, but this is a game full of gafia veterans, so I would have assumed that we know all that already. Were you really being helpful, or just trying to look it? 3. This is a post Sorian made in response to my question about our win condition. I made a mental note of it. I asked if our win condition implied the possibility of multiple malignant entities. Other people replied too, but Sorian's reply stuck out to me the most. As FOXHOUND, I only win when every threat has been eliminated. Even if there is a 3P and it's not SK, we still have to lynch them to win. So I wasn't really sure of the intention behind Sorian's post.
Anyway, all this is far far far from conclusive - and obviously, it's only D1. But I hope you have a better idea about my 'gut' feeling now. This is probably just some irrational town stubbornness.
|
|
|
Post by Swamped on Oct 22, 2015 8:41:01 GMT -8
So I have a dumb question for Pop-O-Matic (and Kalor):
What do you think of Kalor's lack of response to your vote on him?
This is a question more designed to understand both Pop and Kalor's playstyles better.
|
|
|
Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 8:44:13 GMT -8
This sucks - I have no idea how to shorten quotes without destroying everything! Ok Sorian, this is definitely harsh of me, because you probably have good intentions, but here's what I mean: 1. You're pinging the quiet players which is fantastic, but this was my go-strategy as scum. It's a low-risk high-reward sort of thing. People assume that scum is quiet, so pinging them seems like a very town thing to do. 2. Your pre-made post about not role-claiming etc was appreciated, but this is a game full of gafia veterans, so I would have assumed that we know all that already. Were you really being helpful, or just trying to look it? 3. This is a post Sorian made in response to my question about our win condition. I made a mental note of it. I asked if our win condition implied the possibility of multiple malignant entities. Other people replied too, but Sorian's reply stuck out to me the most. As FOXHOUND, I only win when every threat has been eliminated. Even if there is a 3P and it's not SK, we still have to lynch them to win. So I wasn't really sure of the intention behind Sorian's post. Anyway, all this is far far far from conclusive - and obviously, it's only D1. But I hope you have a better idea about my 'gut' feeling now. This is probably just some irrational town stubbornness.
1. I've put pressure votes onto low activity players in every single game I've ever played in, whether I was scum, neutral, or town. I will also never not have a vote on someone and if I do, I will give one of two reasonings. The first is because someone is getting dangerously close and I'm going to bed or will be otherwise indisposed for a long amount of time and I don't feel comfortable keeping that vote on if a turbo happens. The second is if someone has appeased the reason for my vote and I've removed one while searching through the thread for a new avenue of attack. 2. Again, you can feel free to go look at every single game I've ever played in. I always open with the same post (and it's usually pre-typed for my own convenience). The post is written differently because I don't copy and paste but the gist is always the same. As for saying this is a vet game. Well no, that's wrong. Pop is brand new to Gafia as far as I'm concerned. Fight club game doesn't count as real experience. Past that, the veterans are the ones that do stupid role claims right off the bat anyway so the advice is certainly needed. 3. Read between the lines. If a neutral is in the game and they don't have bad intentions, why would you have to lynch them? Remember, the win condition means survivors are not in the game or are naturally aligned with scum team because they can't win with us, so keep that in mind when you answer my question.
|
|
|
Post by Ourobolus on Oct 22, 2015 8:45:41 GMT -8
Guys, I can't take the pressure any more. I'm "Big Ourobolus." I win, no matter what.
|
|
|
Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 8:45:44 GMT -8
Guys, I can't take the pressure any more. I'm "Big Ourobolus." I win, no matter what. I thought you claimed God the first time? #scumtell
|
|
|
Post by Pop-O-Matic on Oct 22, 2015 8:47:44 GMT -8
Point taken, y'all. It's just that this is my first time (well...second), and I guess I'm just getting a little nervous is all. Gonna lay off for right now. And as far as my opinions on things go, I don't really have much to say. My inexperience coupled with how little we know on day 1 really leaves me with little to work with. I will say that I do think speculating about neutrals or putting any serious weight in people's roleclaims and the like this early probably isn't going to accomplish much and we should probably just focus more on an individuals behavior for the time being and save the other stuff for the next day or two when we have more info. All you need to say is what you find weird. You're new and that's fine but you don't need a lot of background knowledge to say that you thought it was weird that so-and-so roleclaimed as this (as an example). Let's try something else then. What should we focus on today? What questions can we ask that will lead to the most productive day 1? *shrug* IDF'NK. I guess...start casually, then start looking for suspicious dialog and behavior, then start hammering to see if they can provide a decent explanation or if they start to crack even further (which, by this logic, would make me a prime target for lynching ) So I have a dumb question for Pop-O-Matic (and Kalor): What do you think of Kalor's lack of response to your vote on him? This is a question more designed to understand both Pop and Kalor's playstyles better. Uh... Oh? And why are you picking Pop as your vote? I looked at the list of players and picked the first name that I saw and in this case it happened to be Pop.
|
|
|
Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 8:47:59 GMT -8
Hey guys I found Sorian's blind spot! Oh good, non-MGS heathens (Sorian) This is what's known as a soft claim on Psycho Mantis, he can read your mind. Good day, Mantis. I know that one because he always shows up on top 10 boss fight lists around the web. The one that reads your memory card too right? I'm still a gamer, I have basic knowledge of the shit people talk about all the time. Am i the only one who skimmed Splinter's NK claim and took it as a joke? I half expected his next post to read "btw I'm also a miller". But hmm if it's not a joke, one needs to figure out the intention behind a claim like that. I missed it because when I looked at the post, my mind didn't register anything above the first thing he quoted. Here we see Sorian explaining to Swamped why he "missed" my claim, even though she didn't ask him anything like that. In the meantime Splinter's first sentence is blowing my mind You're welcomeAt first glance, nothing (other than the wondering what's going on with that Splinter claim). Good deal. I was wondering that myself, I read it more as a joking comment as well, but it certainly does seem out of place. As for what cabot pointed out... I'm much more curious about that. It's very intentional, but not very well hidden. And also a character who has a clean role fit with it. But why claim it so early? Especially since it seems to be a special role with powers. Here Coppa addresses my claim with (feigned?) reluctance. "Oh I kind of ignored it but now YOU mention it I think YOU are right it is suspicious". Coppa putting his words in Matt's mouth? He then goes fishing for Charlies. Regarding GC's comment: Personally I didn't see it as a claim. "Swap controller ports" is literally the only thing I know about MGS1/2 and definitely a joke/reference I would have made if GC didn't beat me to it. Real talk. Both Splinter and GC are on my list at the moment. For reasons that I'm not going to disclose at this time (I don't not want to aid or hinder either of their defenses), Splinter is the more suspect to me but they both know they said something they shouldn't have that had purpose behind it or that people would see purpose behind, joking or not. I'm waiting for how they want to play it next. Sorian gets a little more aggressive on me and GC here. He's still being uncharacteristically cagey though, like he's gauging support before really turning on the pressure. Very well. VOTE: GorlakLet's play abogado del diablo and assume that Splinter's not joking about being immune to night kills. Does FOXHOUND have any reason to be concerned by it? Perhaps in the future, but not immediately, no. If anything it just confirms that he'll be an easier lynch in the future. Now, should Philanthropy be concerned by it? Well, of course. This presents to them an insurmountable obstacle that can only be removed via lynch, lest they waste a night testing this supposed invulnerability. So their first move is to instill the town with doubt for this individual so that we'll be more inclined to lynch them should they prove problematic for la mafia in the future. I'm not saying this is definitive proof that Gorlak is Philanthropy, compa, nor am I saying this clears Splinter of all doubt. Perhaps I am just reading too far into a kneejerk reaction, but with what little information we have right now we need to latch onto every scrap that might lead us closer to the truth. A revolution starts with a single voice, after all. Scrafty on point. I'll go a little further and suggest that Mafia are at least slightly aware of this and therefore unlikely to want to be the first to speak out against me. Splinter is not the good target for today, I agree. My issue with Splinter's claim is that it is 100% useless to town and only protects him as an individual. A proper NK immune would try to bait a NK, not shoo them all away in fear. We've learned that claiming bulletproof down the line is usually a scum tell but what if scum does it early? Are we more likely to believe them? Based on responses so far, I think yes. But like I said, this is a suspicious nugget of info to hold on to but not a reason for lynch today. Beating real money that he is neutral trying to scare off an accidental NK Not seeing the support he was hoping for, Sorian tucks his tail between his legs and runs for the hills. He's also losing real money, poor guy. As always, i think people should have a vote in at all times, and we should absolutely not have a bunch of role claims and vote swaps in the last hour or whatever. For now, i intend to vote either splinter for the odd counter productive rc, or cabot cause omgus. This is very possibly my only post this day phase cause rehearsal and other family shit tomorrow. Im very sorry i cant commit my normal effort until monday. Palmer gives an "ok" reason to vote me, and a pointless non-reason to vote Cabot. Then he chooses Cabot... Palmer you've already excused yourself for the rest of this day phase but I want you to elaborate on this vote whenever you are back Sorian & Coppa's reactions stood out to me the most, Palmer's is also fishy although to be honest I didn't notice that until [someeone] mentioned it
|
|
|
Post by Fireblend on Oct 22, 2015 8:48:12 GMT -8
I've played enough with Sorian to know this is how he plays. Even if he is scum, which is a possibility, his level of activity is good for town at the beginning of the game at least IMO.
|
|
|
Post by Swamped on Oct 22, 2015 8:53:40 GMT -8
gafia.boards.net/post/1396I'm sorry - that's not what I meant Pop. After Kalor voted for you, you voted for him. Kalor made no reaction to that. What do you think of his lack of reaction? (or if he did react, can you link me, I must have missed it). Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by Swamped on Oct 22, 2015 8:55:50 GMT -8
Also, I agree that Scrafty's questioning of Gorlak is definitely warranted. She also previously mentioned some suspicions on Hyper, which I would like to hear more about as I haven't really formed much of an opinion on him.
|
|
|
Post by Coppanuva on Oct 22, 2015 8:56:28 GMT -8
I've played enough with Sorian to know this is how he plays. Even if he is scum, which is a possibility, his level of activity is good for town at the beginning of the game at least IMO. Yeah this is definitely typical Sorian right here. Even in his first game when he was both town AND scum he was very active in calling people out quickly. It's useful,especially early on when a lot of people are playing conservatively. It's also why he dies so quickly.
|
|
|
Post by Splinter on Oct 22, 2015 8:57:28 GMT -8
I've played enough with Sorian to know this is how he plays. Even if he is scum, which is a possibility, his level of activity is good for town at the beginning of the game at least IMO. mmmmdisagree. Sorian was pushing hard enough on me without response that I'd expect a vote, that vote never came
|
|
|
Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 8:58:09 GMT -8
*shrug* IDF'NK. I guess...start casually, then start looking for suspicious dialog and behavior, then start hammering to see if they can provide a decent explanation or if they start to crack even further (which, by this logic, would make me a prime target for lynching ) Uh... So that brings me back to the original question I asked you about. What suspicious dialog and behavior has resonated with you. Hey guys I found Sorian's blind spot! Here we see Sorian explaining to Swamped why he "missed" my claim, even though she didn't ask him anything like that. You're welcomeHere Coppa addresses my claim with (feigned?) reluctance. "Oh I kind of ignored it but now YOU mention it I think YOU are right it is suspicious". Coppa putting his words in Matt's mouth? He then goes fishing for Charlies. Regarding GC's comment: Personally I didn't see it as a claim. "Swap controller ports" is literally the only thing I know about MGS1/2 and definitely a joke/reference I would have made if GC didn't beat me to it. Sorian gets a little more aggressive on me and GC here. He's still being uncharacteristically cagey though, like he's gauging support before really turning on the pressure. Scrafty on point. I'll go a little further and suggest that Mafia are at least slightly aware of this and therefore unlikely to want to be the first to speak out against me. Not seeing the support he was hoping for, Sorian tucks his tail between his legs and runs for the hills. He's also losing real money, poor guy. Palmer gives an "ok" reason to vote me, and a pointless non-reason to vote Cabot. Then he chooses Cabot... Palmer you've already excused yourself for the rest of this day phase but I want you to elaborate on this vote whenever you are back Sorian & Coppa's reactions stood out to me the most, Palmer's is also fishy although to be honest I didn't notice that until [someeone] mentioned it It's hard to tuck my tail between my legs when I have no intention of lynching you today, barring new evidence. You are an idiot regardless of the point of your claim because it is extremely anti-town in any scenario but you are sitting out there in the open now anyway. I don't feel the need to tunnel into an easy lynch today because then we end up with nothing to fall back on in day 1. Scum will have to fall in line if the train against you becomes obvious and that tells us nothing. You know why all of the scum were the only people who voted with scrafty against rats in gafia? Because Scrafty wasn't the obvious choice. There was a way to save her. Right now, you are obvious to anyone who doesn't want to throw it away as "oh guys, he was just joking."
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Bomb on Oct 22, 2015 8:59:47 GMT -8
Sorian can stick around for now. He's keeping the proceedings chugging along whenever there's a lull and if we mislynch him then we lose one of those major driving forces that keep things from stagnating (which only makes it easier for escoria to slip by unnoticed). Could he be Philanthropy or at least anti-FOXHOUND? Possibly, but it's not yet time to open that caja de los truenos and we can hash that out later. I'm conscious of Splinter's points on him as well, but Splinter's not 100% clear in my mind either so I'm not going to build a fort on that logic.
|
|
|
Post by Sorian on Oct 22, 2015 9:00:27 GMT -8
I've played enough with Sorian to know this is how he plays. Even if he is scum, which is a possibility, his level of activity is good for town at the beginning of the game at least IMO. mmmmdisagree. Sorian was pushing hard enough on me without response that I'd expect a vote, that vote never came See above post from me. Cute that you think I was going hard into you. Guess you haven't actually seen what that looks like from me yet. Stick around long enough and you'll learn.
|
|
|
Post by Ourobolus on Oct 22, 2015 9:01:09 GMT -8
caja de los truenos = can of fingernails
|
|
|
Post by Pop-O-Matic on Oct 22, 2015 9:01:26 GMT -8
gafia.boards.net/post/1396I'm sorry - that's not what I meant Pop. After Kalor voted for you, you voted for him. Kalor made no reaction to that. What do you think of his lack of reaction? (or if he did react, can you link me, I must have missed it). Thanks! He's hasn't posted anything in the past 20 hours, so no.
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Bomb on Oct 22, 2015 9:03:36 GMT -8
caja de los truenos = can of fingernails
|
|
|
Post by Ourobolus on Oct 22, 2015 9:04:56 GMT -8
caja de los truenos = can of fingernails I KNOW
|
|
|
Post by Cherry Bomb on Oct 22, 2015 9:06:52 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Swamped on Oct 22, 2015 9:07:48 GMT -8
gafia.boards.net/post/1396I'm sorry - that's not what I meant Pop. After Kalor voted for you, you voted for him. Kalor made no reaction to that. What do you think of his lack of reaction? (or if he did react, can you link me, I must have missed it). Thanks! He's hasn't posted anything in the past 20 hours, so no. He has posted since then though. See page 7.
|
|