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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 11:28:03 GMT -8
I mean, he would have at least mentioned it to Kalor during his medium sessions, no? I'd hope so. It's fairly critical info. I really have to get back to work though. I'll post more substantially again in a few hours.
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Post by Splinter on Nov 5, 2015 11:38:52 GMT -8
Can I vote? There's no danger of a hammer if we are trusting Ty, right?
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 11:40:14 GMT -8
Can I vote? There's no danger of a hammer if we are trusting Ty, right? Right, but what purpose would that serve? Why don't you address my question in the previous page first?
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 11:42:10 GMT -8
Also, ONUW7 ends in ~2 hours. Why don't you focus on that and then once it's over come back here? No need to rush.
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Post by Splinter on Nov 5, 2015 11:43:29 GMT -8
Also, ONUW7 ends in ~2 hours. Why don't you focus on that and then once it's over come back here? No need to rush. I forgot we have another 24 hours.
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Post by Splinter on Nov 5, 2015 11:54:12 GMT -8
I'm going to refuse to give up until I can't continue fighting. Splinter, what do you think of what happened during D4 with L_P's lynch? What do you think my intention was when voting for Gorlak? There was no way in hell that anyone but L_P or Gorlak were getting lynched that day. You (could have) voted early to distance yourself from the planned shenanigans. A couple of things are still weird about that day. 1) If successful, it wouldn't have ended the game, so we'd still get to this point except it would be 1v2 instead of 1v3 (which is actually worse for scum, I think) 2) It only failed because Ty voted at the last minute as well. Now I find it hard to believe that such a last minute vote happened by accident, but I can't see any good reason for Ty to do this... One theory is that the failed tie was actually planned so that Ty would be "cleared" for the rest of the game. That theory seems too wild to be true, but it's the only explanation I can think of to explain both of those points (except for 1: scum miscalculated something and 2: lol I duno)
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 12:00:30 GMT -8
I'm going to refuse to give up until I can't continue fighting. Splinter, what do you think of what happened during D4 with L_P's lynch? What do you think my intention was when voting for Gorlak? There was no way in hell that anyone but L_P or Gorlak were getting lynched that day. You (could have) voted early to distance yourself from the planned shenanigans. A couple of things are still weird about that day. 1) If successful, it wouldn't have ended the game, so we'd still get to this point except it would be 1v2 instead of 1v3 (which is actually worse for scum, I think) 2) It only failed because Ty voted at the last minute as well. Now I find it hard to believe that such a last minute vote happened by accident, but I can't see any good reason for Ty to do this... One theory is that the failed tie was actually planned so that Ty would be "cleared" for the rest of the game. That theory seems too wild to be true, but it's the only explanation I can think of to explain both of those points (except for 1: scum miscalculated something and 2: lol I duno) To be fair, scum didn't really intend to get anyone other than L_P lynched - the "no one other than L_P or Gorlak were getting lynched that day" argument seems sort of weak to me, or at least it misrepresents what scum was trying to do - all they needed was a townie voting for someone else and then they'd mass-vote at once to create a tie. It's a different scenario than what the argument suggests. Even if the decided to go ahead with the plan, you are right that if successful it wasn't a guarantee of anything - maybe they realized it too late and that was why the third scum player backed off at the last moment. And as I mentioned before to Ty, I doubt mafia would have gone ahead with the tie maneuver, with a couple of minutes left to go, if I was scum, as that would have resulted in only 3 votes so they weren't going to succeed. No, they needed a townie to go ahead with the gambit, and that was me.
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 12:06:43 GMT -8
Why save switcher over nk immune? Gorlak doesnt help them deal with a vet, but lp could have killed him any time.
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 12:13:46 GMT -8
This town has weird moments of frightening clarity and then nothing.
The whole situation is confusing me.
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 12:18:16 GMT -8
Ty, I'd really like to hear your thoughts now.
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Post by Splinter on Nov 5, 2015 12:18:33 GMT -8
Why save switcher over nk immune? Gorlak doesnt help them deal with a vet, but lp could have killed him any time. Cabot was still alive right? And NK immune wasn't doing anything for them
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 12:20:05 GMT -8
Why save switcher over nk immune? Gorlak doesnt help them deal with a vet, but lp could have killed him any time. Cabot was still alive right? And NK immune wasn't doing anything for them True but cabot couldnt self protect. They just kill him directly instead?
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Post by Ty4on on Nov 5, 2015 12:28:06 GMT -8
Ty, it's not at all unusual to apply pressure to scum teammates. If you don't prep the bus early, nobody will buy it when you try to execute. In this case, I think they got hosed by POP catching LP when I don't think anyone BUT pop suspected him of anything. I guess I should have pointed out the things that caught my attention. In Fire's own post he said: "Players I'd be ok with lynching atm: Hyper, L_P, GC. Palmer seemed to suggest Hyper may be a PR though, so maybe hold off on him? None of his post really read like that to me, so I'd like him to speak up a bit, maybe post some reads. I would like to know people's reads of him too, I noticed Scrafty skipped him in her reads." The point was that in all of them either Gorlak or L_P threw suspicion on Fire or Fire did the reverse with them and they were all on D2 so there wasn't much of a reason to start bussing. Nothing conclusive, it just seems odd of them to do that. Fire was really close to being turbo'd. Both Gorlak and L_P used this near lynch to play pro town so I find it weird that they wouldn't do much to defend him earlier. What is this? It's surprising to see how quickly you all decided to get rid of Fireblend. I do not have any specific read on him, and his read list/vote didn't add up, but damn the day was so close to end right there. Scrafty and GC both put Fireblend dangerously close to turbo. To be fair Ouro didn't post a vote count until Scrafty voted, but there was a bandwagon developing and I think they should've been a little more cautious.
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 12:32:48 GMT -8
Ty, it's not at all unusual to apply pressure to scum teammates. If you don't prep the bus early, nobody will buy it when you try to execute. In this case, I think they got hosed by POP catching LP when I don't think anyone BUT pop suspected him of anything. I guess I should have pointed out the things that caught my attention. In Fire's own post he said: "Players I'd be ok with lynching atm: Hyper, L_P, GC. Palmer seemed to suggest Hyper may be a PR though, so maybe hold off on him? None of his post really read like that to me, so I'd like him to speak up a bit, maybe post some reads. I would like to know people's reads of him too, I noticed Scrafty skipped him in her reads." The point was that in all of them either Gorlak or L_P threw suspicion on Fire or Fire did the reverse with them and they were all on D2 so there wasn't much of a reason to start bussing. Nothing conclusive, it just seems odd of them to do that. Fire was really close to being turbo'd. Both Gorlak and L_P used this near lynch to play pro town so I find it weird that they wouldn't do much to defend him earlier. What is this? It's surprising to see how quickly you all decided to get rid of Fireblend. I do not have any specific read on him, and his read list/vote didn't add up, but damn the day was so close to end right there. Scrafty and GC both put Fireblend dangerously close to turbo. To be fair Ouro didn't post a vote count until Scrafty voted, but there was a bandwagon developing and I think they should've been a little more cautious. Yeah I actually quoted both of those posts earlier, as evidence for why I believe me being part of the "final confrontation" was part of scum's plan all along. Why would Gorlak and prodigy come to my defense AFTER I was out of danger? If I was scum, having been that close to the lynch they would have wanted to distance themselves as much as possible from me afterwards, not come in my defense, and most definitely not both of them.
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 12:40:42 GMT -8
I guess I should have pointed out the things that caught my attention. In Fire's own post he said: "Players I'd be ok with lynching atm: Hyper, L_P, GC. Palmer seemed to suggest Hyper may be a PR though, so maybe hold off on him? None of his post really read like that to me, so I'd like him to speak up a bit, maybe post some reads. I would like to know people's reads of him too, I noticed Scrafty skipped him in her reads." The point was that in all of them either Gorlak or L_P threw suspicion on Fire or Fire did the reverse with them and they were all on D2 so there wasn't much of a reason to start bussing. Nothing conclusive, it just seems odd of them to do that. Fire was really close to being turbo'd. Both Gorlak and L_P used this near lynch to play pro town so I find it weird that they wouldn't do much to defend him earlier. Yeah I actually quoted both of those posts earlier, as evidence for why I believe me being part of the "final confrontation" was part of scum's plan all along. Why would Gorlak and prodigy come to my defense AFTER I was out of danger? If I was scum, having been that close to the lynch they would have wanted to distance themselves as much as possible from me afterwards, not come in my defense, and most definitely not both of them. Hate to throw a wrench in it but I thought i defended you as well after tour claim. I know i believed it at the time and switched my vote. Hard to find the quote on this app.
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 12:43:20 GMT -8
Yeah I actually quoted both of those posts earlier, as evidence for why I believe me being part of the "final confrontation" was part of scum's plan all along. Why would Gorlak and prodigy come to my defense AFTER I was out of danger? If I was scum, having been that close to the lynch they would have wanted to distance themselves as much as possible from me afterwards, not come in my defense, and most definitely not both of them. Hate to throw a wrench in it but I thought i defended you as well after tour claim. I know i believed it at the time and switched my vote. Hard to find the quote on this app. That is right, and you weren't the only one other than Gorlak/L_P, but it would have been different from their perspective to both throw their support my way.
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 12:48:09 GMT -8
I just think you're reading into it a lot. If i'm scum as well, it implies we coordinated to help clear you that early in the game, just so we'd have a scapegoat? If that was my plan, id be talking to hyper right now instead of you.
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 12:49:15 GMT -8
Then again, theres not much more to grasp at right now. to rai
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 12:49:46 GMT -8
Oops fat fingered that. You get the idea
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 12:50:06 GMT -8
I don't know. I think in the end we'll have many adjectives to describe the scum team with, but somehow I doubt "coordinated" will be one of them.
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 12:52:49 GMT -8
I just think you're reading into it a lot. If i'm scum as well, it implies we coordinated to help clear you that early in the game, just so we'd have a scapegoat? If that was my plan, id be talking to hyper right now instead of you. Would it make more sense if it was 2 scum players jumping to defend their only other partner after he was out of danger?
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 13:49:49 GMT -8
No, but its basically wifom territory. Multiple possible reasons, none proveable.
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 16:05:07 GMT -8
Unvote
I'll explain in a bit. It's Gorlak. We're idiots.
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 17:00:20 GMT -8
I'm all ears.
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 17:02:12 GMT -8
UNVOTE
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 17:07:44 GMT -8
I was going to post properly from my pc when i got home but essentially:
N1 Sorian blocks splinter. Lp and coppa kill roy/matt. Gorlak swaps someone. Splinter dolls someone but fails.
D2 Either he knows he was blocked or he worries when his target doesnt say anything. Brings up dolls as a future cover. I always wondered why he was so quiet about it. Sorian is outed as roleblocker.
N2. Gorlak knows splinter will be blocked so he swaps splinter and someone. Lp kills sorian. Splinter dolls pop.
After that splinter is in the fucking clear.
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Post by palmer on Nov 5, 2015 17:09:18 GMT -8
They left me alive cause ive been covering for him the whole game. They killed hyper cause he was adamant that either splinter or gorlak were scum.
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 17:35:11 GMT -8
Oh. Oh shit. He got fucking swapped. I'm an idiot, I must have read through the doll discussion at least 3 times and never thought to relate that to Gorlak's PR.
At this point, either you're scum and just came up with game-winning idea in which case you deserve to win more than I do, or you're right and just won us the game. I'm satisfied either way.
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Post by Ty4on on Nov 5, 2015 17:42:52 GMT -8
That... kinda makes sense. I've been kinda puzzled by the dolls being dual use, it's usually single or triple. It also clears up the unclear mention of dolls on D2, the odd role claim and even odder fact that he was their target N1.
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Post by Fireblend on Nov 5, 2015 17:45:01 GMT -8
It also makes Gorlak's PR non-useless. Of course if he knew who the role blocker was, there was no better use of his power than switching a confirmed blocker away from fellow scum.
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