Burbeting
Vice Admin
Bear of Love
The obligatory (gay) bear of the society!
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Post by Burbeting on May 26, 2017 9:47:40 GMT -8
I think I gave direct help twice to the scum chat.
First was at the beginning of the game to Oreo, since the game was Oreo's first, and also his first time as scum. I think it was fair to point out few things, especially since the game hadn't even begun.
Secondly, I clarified the vote preventer role, because people had misunderstood how it works. I don't think it's fun one side gets an disadvantage over understanding their own PR.
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Post by Sophia on May 26, 2017 9:49:43 GMT -8
I'm saying it doesn't seem to be a 2-way street. Scum Oreo was struggling at the start of Anime, he got outside help even though he had team mates that should have been there to help him. Town Lifeline was floundering at the start of Arkham, no help which turned to an easy mis-lynch. In retrospect, someone should have maybe considered stepping into give Lifeline some advice. I don't deny there was an inconsistency there and that we should probably be more careful about being consistent with help that's given. New players have never taken advantage of the ability to request an experienced mentor, even when it is offered. But maybe it should be offered more offten? It's technically always available if requested. But it could probably be mentioned a bit more alongside the custom boards, unless Retro has other reasons for not mentioning it. It's just one of those things that gets overlooked.
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Post by franconp on May 26, 2017 9:50:18 GMT -8
I mean, I can't speak for Burb himself, but giving the occasional advice or tip towards new players (especially those who role Mafia) is something that's been happening since I joined all the way back in Season 4. Palmer actually did similar clarifications and even gave me advice back in Werewolf 1 when I was on the chopping block and about to be lynched. If Burb had an issue with the specific wording, I'm sure he would have let me know and I would have edited or deleted it immediately. I was in mod chat at the same time, after all. As for the full role PMs in secret chats, I actually have allowed that in my games more recently. Me and Crimson allowed it in Persona Mafia, due to the inexperienced nature of the scum team. I might mention this to Retro that maybe our newer players might not know of this. I'm not sure it's been mentioned for awhile. It really is nice; I use mine for notes taking during a game. I'm saying it doesn't seem to be a 2-way street. Scum Oreo was struggling at the start of Anime, he got outside help even though he had team mates that should have been there to help him. Town Lifeline was floundering at the start of Arkham, no help which turned to an easy mis-lynch. You keep omiting the part where I gave the same help to town. More than once. New players have never taken advantage of the ability to request an experienced mentor, even when it is offered. But maybe it should be offered more offten? I think Penguin was helped by a mentor.
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Post by Sophia on May 26, 2017 9:53:06 GMT -8
I'm saying it doesn't seem to be a 2-way street. Scum Oreo was struggling at the start of Anime, he got outside help even though he had team mates that should have been there to help him. Town Lifeline was floundering at the start of Arkham, no help which turned to an easy mis-lynch. You keep omiting the part where I gave the same help to town. More than once. Ah, did you? Well there you go then. :P
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Post by franconp on May 26, 2017 9:58:41 GMT -8
I clarified the roles to Penguin and Time when both of them made mistakes in their roleclaim. It's the same as I did with the scum team.
If I hadn't told them Penguin would have keep betting in the Night Kill instead of the lynch and Time would have nominated his town reads for the thunderdome.
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Post by natiko on May 26, 2017 12:09:23 GMT -8
I actually had no clue you could request a thread as town and I've been here since last year lol
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Post by Splinter on May 26, 2017 12:35:44 GMT -8
I think Faddy makes some fair points, particularly about mods helping unprompted. Buuut most of the help given is for the sake of convenience or to helping a new player, both of which are good things. So if it's giving scum too much advantage I think the better solution is just to offer a similar level of help to town.
That said, it would be easier for mods to be consistent if they at least waited for a direct question rather than jumping in to answer scum thread musings (I'm sure I've used this to fish for info before).
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Post by heymonkey on May 26, 2017 13:33:22 GMT -8
I didn't know you could request a mentor! I saw people having been mentored in passing and maybe some discussion of it? maybe? memory unclear. I dunno if I would have because I'm stubborn but maybe it would have kept me from appearing wildly scummy somehow for reasons.
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Post by verelios on May 26, 2017 14:44:35 GMT -8
I've always appeared wildly scummy even when doing nothing so I don't think that's anything new, just a GAFIA staple where everybody gets got eventually.
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Post by heymonkey on May 26, 2017 16:29:11 GMT -8
We'll just form a club with Bronx, I guess.
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Post by Sorian on May 26, 2017 17:31:32 GMT -8
Well if you told Sorian to shoot me I would've shot him on the way out. So that's why I was a bit surprised to read this chat and see that Sorian had not pegged me as the last scum. I figured his "if not for Time I would've just shot Bronx" post was almost directly speaking to scum (and in a way, lining up our win). Because there's no way Sorian shoots BP Bronx, and if Bronx was scum he could've feared losing the game and shot Sorian. I had already dropped a "what if scum shoot you" hint, but I didn't want to be more blatant in case he actually didn't shoot Time. And the instant vote on the Zipped turbo day was a misstep that AB and Time caught, so I figured it set off enough scum alarm bells. Neutrals, man. I didn't need to solve the game. Faddy gave me an out to shoot an obvious town member who didn't have a weird role that could screw with me. Past that, I figured that pointing out that killing me would be a colossal misstep for a living scum and that would block you or Bronx off.
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Post by Sorian on May 26, 2017 17:38:47 GMT -8
Also, I have always allowed posting of role pms in private chat but technically we should not. It is well within bounds to give one scum a different win con and we even saw on this game where Natiko had a worry about me near the start.
As for the help thing, meh, I know we've been better about pming drowning town members and I could see an argument that we dropped the ball on lifeline kind of but I see no issue with how clarification of roles was handled anywhere.
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Post by yn on May 26, 2017 17:53:36 GMT -8
i was mentoring pengu
he had great questions like "what is scum?" as one of his first questions (he even asked this one openly in the game thread, as well :>)
i helped him mostly with terminologies and gafia lingo (like he asked about if he could post during night phase and what is 'lynch' and what is 'kill', things like that). i did try to explain his role to him when he joined but i didn't clarify it later since i thought that was gamerunner's realm. i was mostly morale support and jargon help. i donno if i did okay or not but i think (hopefully) we will see more of pengu in the future and that he has levelled up when he does play again.
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Post by verelios on May 26, 2017 18:17:27 GMT -8
What level am I currently? Can I please get a job change Yn =(
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Post by heymonkey on May 26, 2017 19:00:50 GMT -8
i was mentoring pengu he had great questions like "what is scum?" as one of his first questions (he even asked this one openly in the game thread, as well :>) i helped him mostly with terminologies and gafia lingo (like he asked about if he could post during night phase and what is 'lynch' and what is 'kill', things like that). i did try to explain his role to him when he joined but i didn't clarify it later since i thought that was gamerunner's realm. i was mostly morale support and jargon help. i donno if i did okay or not but i think (hopefully) we will see more of pengu in the future and that he has levelled up when he does play again. I was really glad someone mentioned mafiascum wiki early on and I have looked shit up on it approximately 2390239553 times since I started. So much jargon.
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Post by cabot on May 27, 2017 3:13:53 GMT -8
aids
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Post by flameac on May 27, 2017 14:40:41 GMT -8
Was it the right play for me to stay blocking Sorian once I thought I had a positive hit?
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Post by Flush on May 28, 2017 10:00:54 GMT -8
Maybe we should make a guide for writing clearer role PMs as well as a unification of vocabulary (especially as to what a strongman can and can't push through). I could try something like that if wanted.
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Post by weemadarthur on May 28, 2017 13:30:36 GMT -8
Was it the right play for me to stay blocking Sorian once I thought I had a positive hit? Sitting on a neutral killer is a very reasonable play for a roleblocker. Although, once Natiko flipped and you could see that the neutral team was more against-scum than against-town, you could have tried blocking other people to see if you hit the mafia killer of the day. It would also depend on whether you believed sorian had only one shot left after killing kalor, because if so, he could only kill one town member before he became useless - the mafia team can keep killing one a day forever.
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Post by crimsonfist on May 28, 2017 15:03:21 GMT -8
Maybe we should make a guide for writing clearer role PMs as well as a unification of vocabulary (especially as to what a strongman can and can't push through). I could try something like that if wanted. We've been vetting role PM's recently in the mod chat to make sure that they're clear enough. A Gafia glossary could be useful, although different games are going to have variations on how different roles work depending on the balance/mod digression. ie. I wouldn't let a strongman kill a commuter because they'd be untargettable all night, but I don't think that's universally how it's handled.
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Post by Sophia on May 28, 2017 16:28:44 GMT -8
Maybe we should make a guide for writing clearer role PMs as well as a unification of vocabulary (especially as to what a strongman can and can't push through). I could try something like that if wanted. We've been vetting role PM's recently in the mod chat to make sure that they're clear enough. A Gafia glossary could be useful, although different games are going to have variations on how different roles work depending on the balance/mod digression. ie. I wouldn't let a strongman kill a commuter because they'd be untargettable all night, but I don't think that's universally how it's handled. I usually use Mafiascum's Wiki as a basis for a lot of what I decide. But perhaps maybe we need our own?
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Post by yn on May 28, 2017 18:20:45 GMT -8
ouro and topo are making a gafia manual thingy
i think
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Post by heymonkey on May 28, 2017 21:38:21 GMT -8
Speaking as a relative newb, a manual or wiki that was specific to GAFia would be great.
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Post by Ourobolus on Jun 1, 2017 15:22:20 GMT -8
There's a sort of glossary in my guide. Anyone can update it if they want though.
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