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Post by Roytheone on Dec 2, 2015 5:16:33 GMT -8
 (Yeah, this game has absolutely nothing to do with the Court of Owls, but hey, I thought it was fitting with my Hedwig avatar and all!) Anyway: here is my google doc: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yvQa8QtXrG4uj0N0mTT1BTV8rifgbcCLomXg3peW6_k/edit?usp=sharingIt currently has 8 town power roles, 4 scum, 1 neutral (can become 2 neutrals) and 5 normal townies for a total of 18 players. Some notes: - The oracle role being able to block night communication for scum sounded a bit overpowered to me at first, but I do really like the idea of scum suddenly having to improvise and make their own assumptions about what their scum partners will do during the night. If scum is smart, I think they can get through it with minimal problems. - What will be better, the harvey bullock role being able to send in his command AFTER the fact (send in N2, get result for D2 lynch), or before the fact? (send in N2, get result for D3 lynch after it happened). - I was thinking that a person poisoned by joker would have to put hahahah in his posts with an increased interval the following day. (first after every sentence, then after every three words?) - The clayface role is one I can see giving problems, but I still really like the idea of a role which forces the scum to get creative, like the tailor role in Gafia 1. If scum sends a fake "you got cursed and have to post like this" PM to someone and that person discovers he has been posting in a weird way for NO real reason, I will laugh my ass off  |
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Post by Retro on Dec 2, 2015 7:41:57 GMT -8
(Yeah, this game has absolutely nothing to do with the Court of Owls, but hey, I thought it was fitting with my Hedwig avatar and all!) - The oracle role being able to block night communication for scum sounded a bit overpowered to me at first, but I do really like the idea of scum suddenly having to improvise and make their own assumptions about what their scum partners will do during the night. If scum is smart, I think they can get through it with minimal problems. - What will be better, the harvey bullock role being able to send in his command AFTER the fact (send in N2, get result for D2 lynch), or before the fact? (send in N2, get result for D3 lynch after it happened). - I was thinking that a person poisoned by joker would have to put hahahah in his posts with an increased interval the following day. (first after every sentence, then after every three words?) - The clayface role is one I can see giving problems, but I still really like the idea of a role which forces the scum to get creative, like the tailor role in Gafia 1. If scum sends a fake "you got cursed and have to post like this" PM to someone and that person discovers he has been posting in a weird way for NO real reason, I will laugh my ass off -Awww, I thought a Court of Owls game would be an interesting switch. Although, let's be honest, you can't have a Batman game and not do the classic villains. -Oracle is a really cool idea, and something we can definitely do with the tools we have available. -Joker Gas is awesome, but might provide too much information, as it will effectively clear whoever has it once they start going haha. Although I suppose maybe scum could claim it for a short-term clear. Alternately, could Joker be a neutral? I'm just spitballing, here. -Suppose Gordon investigates Bane, but Ivy commands him to investigate Harvey instead, what will Gordon see? Will he randomly get a PM back saying that Harvey's player is town? That Bane's player is town? How will that work? |
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Post by Roytheone on Dec 2, 2015 8:48:40 GMT -8
-Awww, I thought a Court of Owls game would be an interesting switch. Although, let's be honest, you can't have a Batman game and not do the classic villains. -Oracle is a really cool idea, and something we can definitely do with the tools we have available. -Joker Gas is awesome, but might provide too much information, as it will effectively clear whoever has it once they start going haha. Although I suppose maybe scum could claim it for a short-term clear. Alternately, could Joker be a neutral? I'm just spitballing, here. -Suppose Gordon investigates Bane, but Ivy commands him to investigate Harvey instead, what will Gordon see? Will he randomly get a PM back saying that Harvey's player is town? That Bane's player is town? How will that work? - the joker gas will clear that person, yes, but that person will unavoidable die in 2 days, so I don't think it is that much of a problem. And yeah, scum can even use it to clear themselves during the end of the game if it gets very close. - Gordon gets the PM "your targets alignment is [alignment here]". So he will get the PM "your targets alignment is town", which is still true, only his target is no longer the target he thinks it is. - I was thinking of the bullock role, and I will probably nerf him a bit (make him 1 shot, he needs to put in the command the night BEFORE which makes it a bit harder to use, maybe even make him a miller, would fit his character), since if he gets the result "1 scum voted for the lynched person", and they find that scum very fast, they will instantly have a lot of confirmed townies. |
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Burbeting
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Post by Burbeting on Dec 3, 2015 6:49:26 GMT -8
General Design commentary:
- The Town is jam-packed with investigative roles. Watcher, Tracker, Cop, Role Blocker, Harvey Bullock, they have all investigative capabilities. All these together make the town enormously powerful, in the worst case scenario they could catch the whole scum team during the first night.
Some Commentary on roles:
- Batman is way too overpowered right now. Tracker, who is a 2-shot-Bulletproof, and has a secret protector making sure he won't be lynched during the day? He needs to be seriously nerfed.
- Oracle is a cool idea, would definitely work.
- Does the poison ivy get the information her controlled PR would get, or does that info still go to the pr themselves?
- I don't kinda get Clayface's role, especially if this is a closed game. The only reason I can see him use is role, is to make someone believe they have been joker gassed. Is there any other real use for it?
----
That's all I saw after looking on the design for five minutes or so. Will think about it more thoroughly later, but right now the game seems to have too many investigative powers.
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Post by Roytheone on Dec 4, 2015 4:43:12 GMT -8
We at Roytheone Mafia gamesTM we are happy to present patch 0.05 for the batman game!
Changelog:
- Jason todd (robin) now has a one shot override instead of being a watcher.
- Batman now is only 1 night kill immune.
- Clarified that clayface is only 2 shot.
- Poison ivy now also get the results if she targets an investigation role.
- Gordon is now a role cop instead of an alignment cop.
- The game now has optional micro transactions, for € 2,99 players can buy an alternative skin for their characters!
- Fixed the game crashing when entering the bat cave.
- Added the secret command Fuck el topo which will cause the person to insta win the game.
- Various performance and stability improvements.
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Post by palmer on Dec 4, 2015 6:47:38 GMT -8
Is this meant for main season or a .5 game?
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Burbeting
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Post by Burbeting on Dec 4, 2015 6:51:49 GMT -8
18 players sound like .5 game.
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Post by palmer on Dec 4, 2015 8:11:54 GMT -8
True!
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Burbeting
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Post by Burbeting on Dec 4, 2015 8:17:03 GMT -8
I'll make some real commentary on this later Roy, but it's already better than the first version!
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Post by palmer on Dec 4, 2015 8:18:15 GMT -8
I havent fully read through. Probably this weekend sometime.
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Post by Roytheone on Dec 4, 2015 8:53:10 GMT -8
Is this meant for main season or a .5 game? Defiantly .5 game. I don't even know if I will run it (there are already so many other .5 games that sound awesome!), so for now I just see this as an exercise in game balancing, and I will see how things will go from here. |
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Post by Gorlak on Dec 5, 2015 11:02:19 GMT -8
I just realised I have no idea of balancing a game ;)
Flavour |o.o|
Why not go the MGS route? It was REALLY satisfying be scum, while saving the world. No shame in copying! (<- Ha, get that? Because of the copycat claim it's funny! haha) Small scum team of Batman, Robin, Alfred and the thousand villains are town PRs.
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Post by Roytheone on Dec 10, 2015 1:56:31 GMT -8
So I was thinking about the batman <--> hugo strange interaction. Originally I had it that Batman doesn't know about the existence of hugo strange.=, however what if he gets to know there is a hugo strange role in play who's goal it is to keep him safe until day 4, but then kills him? Then the batman player would have to look for signs of someone that really doesn't want him to die, and find a way to get that person killed before the start of day 4. Could create a very interesting dynamic.
Also, I would probably add that if ivy targets someone that has a night power that can't be redirected (like oracle or harvey), she will just work as a normal role blocker.
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Burbeting
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Post by Burbeting on Dec 10, 2015 7:13:45 GMT -8
Maybe if Ivy targets a PR role, that can't be redirected, her powers won't work at all? This would nerf her power at least a bit (as it could be very powerful at the moment in the worst case scenario).
Batman knowing that Hugo Strange exists could work, as long as Batman doesn't know his identity. Would Hugo Strange know, that Batman knows about his existense?
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Post by palmer on Dec 10, 2015 7:40:05 GMT -8
I like the oracle idea of manipulating chats. Its one of the parts of the jailer from town of salem that made me rework it for gafia. Can you simplify it so she can use itnduring the day or night, and it hlocks the remainder of that phase plus the next phase? Or do you need it to be used separately? Its fairly easy to lock threads on gafia but id avoid the hassle as much as possible.
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Post by palmer on Dec 10, 2015 7:42:52 GMT -8
Bullock is potentially game breaking. Maybe if the day starts with a warning about whats going to happen with the votes? It still narrows down scum drastically either way.
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Post by palmer on Dec 10, 2015 7:46:02 GMT -8
I also vehemently protest post-restriction roles. They're either so restrictive that its impossible to contribute which is not fun for anyone, or so weak that theres no point to even doing it.
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Burbeting
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Post by Burbeting on Dec 10, 2015 7:47:48 GMT -8
True, especially if Bullock uses it during N1, to see how many scums were participating in the first lynch (it seems to be a gafia trend that at least almost majority is lynching the first target). In the worst case scenario there would be zero scums there, and bullock would be able to clear Half of the games population in D2.
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Burbeting
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Bear of Love
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Post by Burbeting on Dec 10, 2015 7:53:18 GMT -8
About post-restrictions: They can work, but only in rare cases (Even then they are jester-type of annoyances to the town). There would at least need to be very strict rules about what is permitted, and what is not. Problem is, it would creaty a lot of hassle for Roy.
Just looking at hp here, I think the jester role there has mostly just worked on discouraging players from posting. Hmmh.
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Post by palmer on Dec 10, 2015 8:08:23 GMT -8
Just call Bane and Catwoman non-consecutive. Doesnt matter when they use it as long as they cant do it back to back.
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Post by palmer on Dec 10, 2015 8:11:49 GMT -8
To me, those roles are anti-fun. We might be amused as outsiders, but the guy that cant post is having a negative time, and thats what matters. We should be making a fun game for all players at all times.
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Post by palmer on Dec 10, 2015 8:14:31 GMT -8
I just had an idea for joker, that maybe combos with ivy. He can poison a player once, but anyone that player visits the night he "dies" is then poisoned.
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Post by palmer on Dec 10, 2015 8:15:03 GMT -8
Scum are immune, for balance
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Post by Roytheone on Dec 11, 2015 4:27:57 GMT -8
Maybe if Ivy targets a PR role, that can't be redirected, her powers won't work at all? This would nerf her power at least a bit (as it could be very powerful at the moment in the worst case scenario). Batman knowing that Hugo Strange exists could work, as long as Batman doesn't know his identity. Would Hugo Strange know, that Batman knows about his existense? True, her power failing if she targets someone that has a non redirect able PR is probably the best solution. And no, Batman will of course only get to know that there is a Hugo strange role and how it works, but not who has it. Strange himself will only know the name of the player that is batman, nothing else. I like the oracle idea of manipulating chats. Its one of the parts of the jailer from town of salem that made me rework it for gafia. Can you simplify it so she can use itnduring the day or night, and it hlocks the remainder of that phase plus the next phase? Or do you need it to be used separately? Its fairly easy to lock threads on gafia but id avoid the hassle as much as possible. The way I have it right now is that she can block 1 night phase and 1 day phase, can be separate. If she wants to do it, she needs to send me the command during the preceding phase (so if she wants to block during N3, she sends the command during day 3, if she wants to block day 2, she has to send the command during N1). I think this gives us more than enough time to prepare everything. True, especially if Bullock uses it during N1, to see how many scums were participating in the first lynch (it seems to be a gafia trend that at least almost majority is lynching the first target). In the worst case scenario there would be zero scums there, and bullock would be able to clear Half of the games population in D2. I agree that Bullock probably needs to be adapted some. But the scenario you described is impossible, since Bullock will get the results from the first lynch AFTER he puts in the night command. So if he puts it in as early as possible (N1), he will get the day 2 results during N2. There is no way for him to get results from the first lynch. I also vehemently protest post-restriction roles. They're either so restrictive that its impossible to contribute which is not fun for anyone, or so weak that theres no point to even doing it. The posting restrictions will probably not be to bad, since the main effect of the poison is the person dying, the posting restrictions are more an added bonus effect, not the main one. Just call Bane and Catwoman non-consecutive. Doesnt matter when they use it as long as they cant do it back to back. Bane already is non-consecutive, he isn't forced to use the strongman kill and can also choice to use a normal kill or do nothing, which will not force him to "rest" the following night. Catwoman may become a bit too powerful if she has to much choice about when to use her ability. |
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Post by Roytheone on Dec 11, 2015 4:35:52 GMT -8
Also, just a thought:
Do you guys think that oracle blocking night 1 for scum is to powerful? Should I make it so she can at the earliest block day 2 and onward? And maybe she should not be allowed to block a night phase and the following day phase (or vice versa) as one big block?
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Burbeting
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Post by Burbeting on Dec 14, 2015 6:44:38 GMT -8
So yeah:
- Bullock needs to be changed.
- Clayface needs to be changed. Maybe to the godfather, like Roy said?
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Post by palmer on Dec 14, 2015 7:02:45 GMT -8
Oracle idea! Been thinking about enablers lately. What if, as long as shes alive, scum cannot chat during the day. Only at night.
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Burbeting
Vice Admin
Bear of Love
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Post by Burbeting on Dec 14, 2015 7:20:41 GMT -8
Oracle idea! Been thinking about enablers lately. What if, as long as shes alive, scum cannot chat during the day. Only at night. Nah, I don't really think idea is so great. I think the possibility to disrupt is better than to be permanent disrupter. More fair to scum. |
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Post by Roytheone on Dec 15, 2015 5:03:23 GMT -8
So yeah: - Bullock needs to be changed. - Clayface needs to be changed. Maybe to the godfather, like Roy said? So yeah, i will probably remove clayface his pm ability, and replace it with him being able to pick a name at the beginning that will show up for gordon AND the fact that he will not be counted as scum with bullock his power. That should balance both roles a bit in one stroke. Oracle idea! Been thinking about enablers lately. What if, as long as shes alive, scum cannot chat during the day. Only at night. I agree with burb here, this seems a bit too powerful and annoying for scum. |
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Post by Roytheone on Dec 16, 2015 3:21:50 GMT -8
Alright, some changes: -Clayface is now a godfather, he can send me a role and that will be the role that shows up if gordon investigates him. Also, he will be counted as "town" in the bullock power, so if town leans to much on bullock's results, they will get fucked I do however want to add some choice to his role, so maybe it is an idea that if he does the night kill, he will actually show up as his real role if he gets investigated by gordon the same night. Adding some risk to it. - Oracle can not block a night and day back to back, that seems a bit shitty for the scum. Also, she can block day 2 at the earliest, I do want to give scum some time to get to know each other. |
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