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Post by nin1000 on Apr 15, 2016 22:07:12 GMT -8
Can't we wait just one more day so that the scum aren't paired up with each other? We've had bad luck these past few days but they can't keep it up forever. You voted betray last time. I voted ally just FYI
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Post by Ourobolus on Apr 16, 2016 4:47:19 GMT -8
TALK PHASE ENDS IN
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Post by Cherry Bomb on Apr 16, 2016 6:52:12 GMT -8
Ugh, this is farcical. Fine, I'm picking Ally this phase, nin and RNH. Betray if you want; it's all the same to me.
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Post by RobotNinjaHornets on Apr 16, 2016 7:37:18 GMT -8
I'll ally as well, makes no difference to me at this point. I can't get into the final 3 without at least 2 more rounds, so the only person I trust as town is probably not going to win. So fuck it.
And can someone please explain why apparently everyone thinks fucking Sorian is town?
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Post by Sorian on Apr 16, 2016 7:51:09 GMT -8
I'm going back to the plan of allying then Retro and Terra
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Post by Ourobolus on Apr 16, 2016 8:07:38 GMT -8
TALK PHASE HAS ENDED
DECISION PHASE WILL LAST FOR 24 HOURS OR UNTIL I RECEIVE ALL OF THE VOTES
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Post by Ourobolus on Apr 16, 2016 10:07:45 GMT -8
DECISION PHASE 8 RESULTS
Retro & Sorian ALLY versus Terrabyte ALLY
ScraftyDevil & RobotNinjaHornets ALLY versus nin1000 BETRAY
Launchpad BETRAY versus CrimsonFirst ALLY
LaunchpadMcQ, Terrabyte20xx, Sorian, and nin1000 have escaped!
Except nin and Terrabyte stabbed each other on the way out. They're dead.
And also except LaunchpadMcQ tripped Sorian, who landed into a pile of rusty needles, writhing in pain before suddenly a piano fell on him. Oops.
Launchpad, Retro, and CrimsonFist have won the game!
POINTS:
ScraftyDevil - 4 LaunchpadMcQ - 9 Sorian - 9 CrimsonFist - 2 Retro - 5 Terrabyte - 9 RobotNinjaHornets - 2 nin1000 - 9
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Post by RobotNinjaHornets on Apr 16, 2016 10:09:22 GMT -8
FUCKING SORIAN WASN'T LYING
GODFUCKINGSHIT
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 16, 2016 10:11:58 GMT -8
Oops
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 16, 2016 10:15:31 GMT -8
I actually miscalculated, wasn't paying attention, and told Crimson to go for a Betray/Betray. Yet, he seemed to realize I was making a mistake.
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Post by Retro on Apr 16, 2016 10:33:40 GMT -8
I read it as Betray/Ally.
Also, Sorian, you really should have listened to Scrafty. But I suspect that, like me, you were just so tired and wanted the game to just end already.
I'll open spec threads, then I have more to say after I come back from getting lunch.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 16, 2016 10:48:59 GMT -8
I read it as Betray/Ally. Also, Sorian, you really should have listened to Scrafty. But I suspect that, like me, you were just so tired and wanted the game to just end already.
I'll open spec threads, then I have more to say after I come back from getting lunch. 100% this. We were at a stalling point that wasn't going to get resolved without some very very lucky/precise RNG.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 16, 2016 10:54:07 GMT -8
FUCKING SORIAN WASN'T LYING GODFUCKINGSHIT Also, I told you. I'm not sure why I got such a scummy reputation here, I mostly did everything that I should have done as town. I think I had one weird betray somewhere along the way and the other person betrayed me anyway so meh. Kudos to Launch, he had me doubting myself a lot near the end. Retro played the pity hand too hard and I didn't really feel bad
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Post by Retro on Apr 16, 2016 10:59:00 GMT -8
Meh, just as well that this is going to be my last game for a while. I was really sloppy in both this game and WWE.
I wrote up a day-by-day thing of what I was thinking each day. I'll post it when I get home.
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 16, 2016 11:01:00 GMT -8
I'm wondering why you guys were suspicious of me in the first place. Btw, that inexplicable Crimson Ally to Scrafty I was playing up, it was for me. I allied that time; Scrafty betrayed
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Post by crimsonfist on Apr 16, 2016 11:21:34 GMT -8
I actually miscalculated, wasn't paying attention, and told Crimson to go for a Betray/Betray. Yet, he seemed to realize I was making a mistake. I actually wanted to ally/ally to put us both one vote away from winning, but had no way to co-ordinate that.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 16, 2016 11:23:50 GMT -8
I'm wondering why you guys were suspicious of me in the first place. Btw, that inexplicable Crimson Ally to Scrafty I was playing up, it was for me. I allied that time; Scrafty betrayed Retro and Kalor both acted scummy to me based on votes and you were the only one that made sense as a partner. When Kalor died and was town, I thought about who the last scum could have been to go in that spot and you will were the only one that made sense as a partner.
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Post by Retro on Apr 16, 2016 11:38:25 GMT -8
OK, here's how it was:
Day One
The scum meet and come up with a plan to communicate discreetly and call shots during the game. I worry that Burbeting's going to have a problem with this, but he doesn't seem to.
I try to be part of the discussion, partly to look town, and partly because a lot of people aren't really talking, and I need information. On day one, it's in everyone's interest to ally. I do so. So does everyone else.
Day Two
Well, we didn't learn anything from that, did we? It's now in no one's best interest to Ally, as RNH points out. I betray. So does everyone else.
Scrafty reads me as town. I smile to myself. It's still early, but I've gotten past the Bloodhound, at least for now.
Day Three
Sorian asks about why everyone betrayed. I stupidly answer him. Then I even more stupidly let myself get drawn into an argument with him about it. I can't overstate how dumb this was. I should know better than to let Sorian bait me.
Sorian is now thinking that I'm scum. I have only one option. The best way to work around Sorian is to flatter him. I drop a line about how I think Sorian's the best option for Town, and I vote Ally to take the hit.
Day Four
The good news: Sorian is, at least, more willing now to believe that I might be town. The bad news: I'm up against the two neutrals, who are both just about ready for escape, and both Scrafty and Sorian are at the door too, with almost nothing stopping them. My choices are to either prevent the neutrals from escaping, (which is the scummiest move ever,) or throw the game for the scum team. I can't do the latter, so I do the former.
I take a shot at trying to convince Nin and Terra to ally, so I can betray them, lower their points, and raise mine back up. I know it's not likely to work, but I give it a shot. It doesn't work. We all betray.
Day Five
Well, I'm in it now. Everyone's convinced that I'm scum. I briefly consider outing myself and going whole ham, twirling my moustache and tying some women to railroad tracks, to try and become a distraction from Launchpad and Crimson. But if I confirm that I'm scum, I also confirm that I don't want Nin, Terra, Sorian, or Scrafty to escape, confirming that none of them are scum. With me confirmed as scum, I will have confirmed the alignment for five out of nine players. I'd might as well have thrown the game.
No one will believe me if I claim that I don't trust the neutral's claims. No one will believe me suddenly scumreading Scrafty. They might believe me scumreading Sorian, though. Sorian and I have a history of "friendly animosity." (Truth: I don't hate Sorian. Quite the opposite, I like Sorian quite a lot. I just hate how he plays.) I write up a post about how I don't trust Sorian anymore, and come up with some BS about our argument, and him telling me to betray the neutrals. It won't convince most people, but it might sow enough confusion to keep me afloat.
The "Friend to all Neutrals" argument is shallow and dumb, and I know that before I post it. But people always seem to think that I'm really dumb while I'm playing, so I'm hoping I can pull off "stupid but sincere."
Besides, I know at this point that I'm not getting out. Crimson isn't either. The key is to get one of us into position to get Launchpad out.
It's me and RNH vs Crimson. I betray. So does Crimson. Nothing happens. Launch is at six points, so I'm hanging tight and hoping he has a plan.
Day Six
Me and Launchpad vs Sorian. Sorian doesn't trust either of us. I explain that I don't trust Sorian or Launchpad in order to distance myself from Launchpad. (I think about trying to play nice with Launch to try and pull suspicion off him. Then I realize I've had too much of the wine in front of me.) We all Betray. Nothing happens.
Day Seven
Kalor is dead, and Launch and I are paired up. Initially, I'm excited. I signal Launch that I'm ready for an Ally/Betray to push him to nine and out the door. He signals back Betray/Betray.
Then I realize that the rest of the game is stonewalling. The game isn't going to end today. If I play my hand, it will out Launch and I as scum. I betray.
Day Eight
Sorian's disheartened. (Me too, Sora.) He wants to ally. Launch is paired with Crimson, and he's signalling Ally/Betray.
I think the game might be finally over.
Scrafty's fighting for another stonewall. It's the smart move for town, so I just have to hope no one listens to her.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 16, 2016 11:43:20 GMT -8
"I should know better than to let Sorian bait me."
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Post by Sorian on Apr 16, 2016 11:49:59 GMT -8
General game comments, I did like it and I think it would be good as a mechanic layered over something else but, unfortunately, by itself it got tedious fast. I do think part of that was Terra tipping the neutrals hands because then it became pretty easy to guess 1-2 of the scum for sure and working from there narrowed things a lot and really drove home how lucky you have to be with the RNG match-ups to get anything done, even more so once town and scum had even numbers after Kalor died.
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Post by Launchpad on Apr 16, 2016 11:52:27 GMT -8
I was thinking that the game was great, but maybe not allow the neutrals to claim would be better
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Post by RobotNinjaHornets on Apr 16, 2016 11:54:03 GMT -8
I think, amusingly, your tunnelling of Kalor made me tunnel you Sorian, as Kalor was the only person I was 100% convinced of outside of myself and the neutrals
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Post by crimsonfist on Apr 16, 2016 11:58:47 GMT -8
With how things played out, the entire scum team could have claimed and it would still have just come down to stonewalling each other until RNG handed one team or the other a win. If we'd have been read as town, it could have been a very scum sided game. Although of course Retro had no choice but to out himself to prevent a town win.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 16, 2016 12:08:38 GMT -8
I think, amusingly, your tunnelling of Kalor made me tunnel you Sorian, as Kalor was the only person I was 100% convinced of outside of myself and the neutrals Something about his vote on one of those days really stuck out to me, it didn't seem town-oriented at all. Oh well.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 16, 2016 12:09:19 GMT -8
Also Launch, I found this on my computer lol
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Post by Retro on Apr 16, 2016 13:29:24 GMT -8
"I should know better than to let Sorian bait me." I realized today that arguing with you is like being in quicksand. The more you struggle, the worse it gets. The key is to stop fighting, even if you think you're right.
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Post by Retro on Apr 16, 2016 13:32:23 GMT -8
I'm curious what the rest of the scum team thought about not having a scum chat past the first night? It made things more chaotic, but it all came together on the last couple of days.
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Post by Sorian on Apr 16, 2016 13:35:55 GMT -8
"I should know better than to let Sorian bait me." I realized today that arguing with you is like being in quicksand. The more you struggle, the worse it gets. The key is to stop fighting, even if you think you're right. Found the new status that is going underneath my avatar. (To be fair, this is a great way to get reads on people)
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Post by crimsonfist on Apr 16, 2016 13:42:51 GMT -8
The lack of scum chat worked out fine, I don't think that lack of co-ordination hurt us too much. Maybe if we had a chat we could have come up with a counterclaiming the neutrals gambit, but being the first time a game like this has run, people being willing to take risks like that would have been unlikely. We maybe should have had a code for ally/ally too though.
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Post by Retro on Apr 16, 2016 13:57:32 GMT -8
I realized today that arguing with you is like being in quicksand. The more you struggle, the worse it gets. The key is to stop fighting, even if you think you're right. Found the new status that is going underneath my avatar. (To be fair, this is a great way to get reads on people) You're not wrong, but I tend to do the same thing as Town that I did as Scum - Over-argue my innocence. So here are my thoughts on the game as a whole: -It's a super interesting setup, and I'd love to see it run again, but it definitely needs a few tweaks. -A time limit might not be a bad idea. Maybe steal the sinking ship idea from 999 and say you have nine day phases to escape. This will prevent stonewalling and/or waiting for favorable RNG. (I seriously thought this game was going to stall forever. I was starting to regret not throwing in the towel on day three.) After nine phases, everyone loses. -Scum chat isn't really necessary, but not every scum team's going to be clever enough to come up with a way to communicate. An alternative would be limited scum chat. Maybe each scum can post once in scum chat per day, or during each day, only one scum player is able to post, but can post as much as they want. Maybe limit scum chat to only one phase, like only during the night. I'm just spitballing, here. -I know the majority voted for 24 hour phases, but it was too long with nobody talking. I suggested to Burb that the players should be able to vote to end the day phase. -It would be interesting to introduce power roles, although I think they would have to be very limited in ability and use. For example, you could have one person with the power to negate the other player's vote in a pair, so I could force someone to ally with me. This might be too OP, but it's just a thought. I think that's all I have for now.
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